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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

Original poster

To feel so excluded

266 replies

LucyD30 · 28/07/2023 23:20

So I work in an office in a team of 7 (at my particular office). The company is quite big - 4 or 5 offices with maybe 150 employees per office. My team are really close. We all get on really well and there is lots of banter. I’ve always felt like an outsider - not sure why - maybe because I’m part-time. I have just never felt like I fitted in. However we all have a laugh and I thought I was liked and quite a valued member of the team.
A few months ago I found out that another member of staff, who is in a different team to me but sits near us, has organised a regular meal out. I think a while ago it was only a few people who went but it has evolved over time. It has now got to the point where everyone in my team is invited except me. On the day when the meal takes place they all talk about it in front of me. The lady who organises it has always been really friendly towards me and I can’t think why I’ve been excluded. This afternoon was so humiliating as I was sat there while they were all talking about who to share lifts with and who was going back to whose house after work etc. I just sat there feeling so embarrassed- I didn’t know where to look. It’s put me in such a weird mood. I really thought I had a good working relationship with these people. We are an open plan office and so I didn’t have the guts to confront all of them. I just don’t know how to approach this.
i messaged my colleague to apologise for being distant and explained that I felt really excluded and embarrassed but she didn’t organise it and was trying to be discreet at least - and I don’t blame her for it. It just makes me dread going in.
should I have a quiet word with the lady who organises this? Or my boss? I shouldn’t feel like I’m choking back the tears every month when they do this but on the other hand I would hate to be invited out of pity.
i really didn’t think something like this would upset me this much!

OP posts:
Pickledpigeon · 29/07/2023 13:25

It is so covert that everyone joins in.

The other colleagues, or the majority of them may not be aware the op is being purposely excluded.
I’ve heard in similar scenarios the bully lie and say that colleague x didn’t want to come, which is then used to brand the victim as anti social and ‘not one of us’ which isolates them further.

faerieland · 29/07/2023 13:32

CinnamonJellyBeans · 29/07/2023 10:36

This is terrible behaviour. They know exactly what they are doing and your boss is complicit.

Here on mumsnet, the forum users always want to make the OP the poster girl for whatever it is that they're too scared to do themselves. We'd all like to see you vanquish the bullies and fist-pump the air as we read about it, but having read your posts on the thread, I don't think that's the role for you.

If you go to HR, the atmosphere will become even more unbearable for you during the investigation and in the aftermath. Nasty women like that, who think their behaviour is justified will not change their mindset, even when their behaviour is made explicit to them and they are threatened with consequences; they will just take it underground and find more insidious ways to bully, which will be even more harmful to you.

These people are NOT the people you need to expend money and time eating with outside of work. They are draining your energy, harming your mental health and probably making you miserable at home. The best thing for you is to leave this toxic workplace.

There's a couple of things I feel you could do:

Apply for another job and when you get one (and not before references, contract etc), make a formal complaint to HR. The atmosphere will be very difficult for you, but you're helping other women in the workplace, so it's worth it. You can always go "sick" if the situation becomes untenable in those last few weeks.

If you cannot get another job, take the money you would spend on the meal and taxis each month out in cash, put it in a jar and when you have enough buy yourself something beautiful, like a good handbag, a ring, perfume. Something you can take to work and secretly enjoy, look at and smile to yourself while they're planning an evening out. Even better if one of them admires your purchase.

Or you could just get another job, leave their goodbye flowers and card on your desk, walk out and never give them another thought.

The thing is, bullying is aggression. It may be passive aggression and insidious, but it’s still aggression. A lone person confronting aggression is understandably wary of doing so. It isn’t easy to say something when you are surrounded by wolves, albeit in human skin.

In my own workplace bullying situation I brought up being left out of the Secret Santa and was met with a confrontational response. It’s really hard when you’re going through this. I felt scared of really standing up for myself in case I was made out to be the problem and dismissed.

Leaving is the best solution. I agree.

faerieland · 29/07/2023 13:42

PerkingFaintly · 29/07/2023 11:10

I need to print this out and stick it on the wall.

I used to waste so many years and so many tears pretzeling myself to figure out how I'd been at fault, when these teflon tantrummers attacked.

And the truth is the fault was always simple: I had caused them bad feelz. And that must never, ever happen.

Show quote history

100% In fact the justification for the dreadful behaviour appears to be from some imagined slight from you.

MrsRachelDanvers · 29/07/2023 13:42

I tend to avoid events with colleagues anyway as I like to separate work and non work. That said, I still get invited. I can’t believe that no one has queried why you’re not included-instead of being embarrassed, your friendly colleague should have spoken up and ensured you were. It’s not on-why make work toxic when it could be much nicer?

Newestname002 · 29/07/2023 13:46

@LucyD30

I'm surprised that, in such a small team, your boss hasn't noticed and commented to you about your not attending these dinners - even from a team harmony viewpoint? I wonder if she's spoken to the organiser and what the result was. 🌹

MichelleScarn · 29/07/2023 14:00

Are they 'formal dinners' as in a space is requested for private dining for a meal, or are they 'book a table in a restaurant'?

ScribblingPixie · 29/07/2023 14:11

In my own workplace bullying situation I brought up being left out of the Secret Santa and was met with a confrontational response. It’s really hard when you’re going through this.

I got left out of the office raffle (big freebies) because I was on a short-term contract. Actually got a 'Full-time staff only' right in the face when I went over to get my ticket. Terrible walk of shame back to my desk.

faerieland · 29/07/2023 14:21

ScribblingPixie · 29/07/2023 14:11

In my own workplace bullying situation I brought up being left out of the Secret Santa and was met with a confrontational response. It’s really hard when you’re going through this.

I got left out of the office raffle (big freebies) because I was on a short-term contract. Actually got a 'Full-time staff only' right in the face when I went over to get my ticket. Terrible walk of shame back to my desk.

just can’t imagine acting like this - it’s them that should be ashamed!

Thepollonator · 29/07/2023 14:23

Hummingbird89 · 28/07/2023 23:49

Ok. Your update makes it clear. I don’t blame you for being upset and feeling excluded. Would you have the guts to address it directly? When they’re all talking in front of you, something like “Sorry guys, is there a reason I’m not invited? Have I said something to upset somebody?” I know it’s hard if you strongly dislike confrontation but honestly I would watch them squirm.
I wouldn’t go to HR, the outcome will be one of two things-either everyone stops going, which will make you feel more awkward, or they’ll invite you and you will feel like it’s a pity invite.

This is excellent!

Luxell934 · 29/07/2023 15:38

Personally I wouldn’t be going to HR or my boss over this. If all your colleagues are polite to you at work and there is no work related issues I would just let this go.

Maybe it was an oversight, maybe it’s on purpose. No offence but maybe they just don’t like you?! Harsh I know, but just trying to see things from a different perspective?

Them discussing it at work etc is rude though and I completely understand why this makes you feel uncomfortable and left out.

If you honestly think that you get on well with everyone, there’s no drama and you actually really want to go to these dinners then I would speak up next time they are discussing it. On Monday or whenever your next in ask them if they had a good time; ask about the theme, make comments saying ‘Oh I’d have loved to see Mark doing that” or “That’s brilliant, I’d have loved to go to go to so and so restaurant”. Maybe even ask about the next one. “So what’s the theme for the next one” or “Where you planning on going next time!”. Try to include yourself in the conversation about it and not shy away.

Mary46 · 29/07/2023 16:36

Not nice. Not sure the way to handle it. Maybe call them out on it. Its hard be thick skinned at times.

chopc · 29/07/2023 19:54

@LucyD30 if you think the person you spoke to was a friend she would have at least asked you why you are not coming if she thought you were invited.

She is not your friend.

Your boss is SO in the wrong and if she doesn't realise she shouldn't be a boss

ScribblingPixie · 29/07/2023 20:33

maybe because I’m part-time

I hadn't noticed you'd said this before, OP. Ridiculous as it sounds, this could be all it is.

Winnipeg23 · 30/07/2023 18:13

Leave. Don't be around people who don't appreciate you. Find a place where u are loved like you deserve to be.

OhcantthInkofaname · 30/07/2023 18:15

LucyD30 · 28/07/2023 23:39

When I messaged her she replied saying she was sorry and maybe it’s because I have kids. Our boss also has young kids and is invited (and goes). That isn’t the reason. They know I have a DH who could look after our kids. I’ve worked there 6 years!

It happened a couple of months ago too - definitely not an oversight on their part. I even spoke to the lady who organises it today and commented on how she looked nice and she said she was going out for dinner. Nothing else. I don’t usually overreact to stuff but it was pretty awful today. Just need help with how to approach it as it’s a semi regular thing and I don’t want to feel like this every month or 2 when they go out. Do you think it would be inappropriate to ask if I can work from home on those days that they all go out so I don’t have to sit at my desk feeling humiliated and excluded? I couldn’t concentrate on my actual job as I was so upset and distracted with it

I would ask my manager to work from home those days. At least then you wouldn't have to feel excluded twice.

Luxell934 · 30/07/2023 18:20

Winnipeg23 · 30/07/2023 18:13

Leave. Don't be around people who don't appreciate you. Find a place where u are loved like you deserve to be.

Errr it’s work though…not a family gathering.

OhNoOhNo · 30/07/2023 18:30

NeverDropYourMooncup · 29/07/2023 13:23

Apparently so.

I'd certainly never invite you to a meal if we worked in the same place - and I doubt you would me.

Show quote history

If it was a dinner for the entire team, yes, I would invite you.

I think you need to re-assess your behaviour in the office, it’s possible you’re the office bully.

Ginola2345 · 30/07/2023 19:13

Sorry you are going through this OP. for This happened to me when I first started a new job.

About 5 members of my team (everyone except me) and 4 or 5 staff from the offices upstairs went for a couple of nights out and also a Christmas meal (the latter would have been booked ages in advance). I could hear odd snippets of conversations about an upcoming night out or conversations after a night out and I felt as sad and awkward as you OP.

Then on one occasion I made up my mind to make a bright and breezy comment about it instead of sitting feeling sad and miserable and I would say something like ‘oh yes its really nice there …….’ or sounds like a good night out’ or similar I can’t remember what I said exactly but inside I was feeling hurt but rather than sitting quiet I said something nice.

I then got invited to the next one, went and enjoyed it. Personally, I know your not a newbie but I would try this approach first rather than going straight to HR or your manager as the situation could become even worse.

ExpatAl · 30/07/2023 19:15

It is bullying. I’ve just dealt with a similar tricky case. Don’t ask if you offended them or say how upset you are. The advice someone gave to shine a light on it is spot on. ‘It seems I was excluded, is that the intention?’ SMILE, SMILE, SMILE will sort it out for you. I’m sorry op that the onus is on you to act, which is unfair but it will be so good for your self esteem.

Lollipop81 · 30/07/2023 19:16

I would jokingly ask where my invite was. Don’t need to be confrontational just drop it like that. Might be a perfectly reasonable explanation.

KinooOrKinog · 30/07/2023 19:32

I'm so sorry you're being put through that, OP.

There's no reasonable explanation for it and it is bullying. If its been going on a number of month's and no-one else has said "why is LucyD30 not coming?", then it's not an oversight. Similarly, with your colleague implying she can't extend the invite because she's not the organiser, well she needs to grow up. She might as well be saying "it's not my ball".

I'm sorry I don't have any good advice OP, other than to empathise as I've been through similar. My guess is if you take it to HR they'll tell you to sort it out between you. Or worse, the bully will be told to invite you.

It seems drastic, but as others have said, it's probably time to move on. The longer you stay, the more it will destroy your confidence & self worth. And no gang of mean girls is worth that.

Rachand23 · 30/07/2023 19:59

This is really upsetting for you. They DO KNOW they have excluded you, for whatever selfish, mean reason they have. You could say something to them, but do you really want to be included in their outing because you spoke up! I would ignore, put on your happiest face and job search. One you have got a new job I would tell them you are leaving because of the toxic conditions you are having to work under - especially telling your boss this too. Good luck and remember they are the ones with the problem not you. You sound like a nice person.

Mirabai · 30/07/2023 20:32

I wouldn’t tell the organiser how you feel but I would just ask her straight out whether there’s a reason for the exclusion and whether she has some kind of issue with you.

Mirabai · 30/07/2023 20:34

If you say you hope that if she has some kind of issue with you she’d tell you so it could be resolved - it puts her on the back foot having to justify herself.

doorstopper123 · 30/07/2023 21:04

I think i would say something

oh, am I the only person in the team who is excluded from the office social event?!

stand and wait for someone to burble on

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