To feel so excluded

[LucyD30]

So I work in an office in a team of 7 (at my particular office). The company is quite big - 4 or 5 offices with maybe 150 employees per office. My team are really close. We all get on really well and there is lots of banter. I’ve always felt like an outsider - not sure why - maybe because I’m part-time. I have just never felt like I fitted in. However we all have a laugh and I thought I was liked and quite a valued member of the team.
A few months ago I found out that another member of staff, who is in a different team to me but sits near us, has organised a regular meal out. I think a while ago it was only a few people who went but it has evolved over time. It has now got to the point where everyone in my team is invited except me. On the day when the meal takes place they all talk about it in front of me. The lady who organises it has always been really friendly towards me and I can’t think why I’ve been excluded. This afternoon was so humiliating as I was sat there while they were all talking about who to share lifts with and who was going back to whose house after work etc. I just sat there feeling so embarrassed- I didn’t know where to look. It’s put me in such a weird mood. I really thought I had a good working relationship with these people. We are an open plan office and so I didn’t have the guts to confront all of them. I just don’t know how to approach this.
i messaged my colleague to apologise for being distant and explained that I felt really excluded and embarrassed but she didn’t organise it and was trying to be discreet at least - and I don’t blame her for it. It just makes me dread going in.
should I have a quiet word with the lady who organises this? Or my boss? I shouldn’t feel like I’m choking back the tears every month when they do this but on the other hand I would hate to be invited out of pity.
i really didn’t think something like this would upset me this much!

Why didn't you just say 'oh what's this you're talking about? Can I come?' - I wouldn't automatically assume i'd been deliberately excluded?

I think you should speak to your boss. Surely they will know the answer and hopefully sort it out. Maybe everyone just thinks you can’t or wouldn’t want to go but no-one really knows why (as nobody bothered to ask!).

Agree. I appreciate the OP has written that this person was ‘mortified’, but is it not rather odd that this person felt so strongly and yet still didn’t invite the OP!? I would feel mortified of my own behaviour if a colleague told me they felt left out and I said “maybe it’s because you have children” and continued to let them be excluded!

OP you deserve much better.

I'd be pretty pissed off if HR started dictating to me who I saw in my personal time as though they were a Mum complaining their child hadn't been invited to a party.

It's got nothing to do with me if people decide to socialise together in their own time, any more than it's anything to do with me if two of them go on a date or some get invited to a hen do or a wedding and I don't.

I would stay in control of your own response of that makes sense. I mean, don't give lots of information or background or about how you are feeling.
Can you simply ask the organiser outright if you can come to the next dinner and be in the e mails from now on. A question, not giving the background as that hands the power over and might make you feel more embarrassed after.
' the dinners sound great, can I come to the next one if not limited by numbers- can you put me in the e mail group?
Then see what she says!

This is terrible behaviour. They know exactly what they are doing and your boss is complicit.

Here on mumsnet, the forum users always want to make the OP the poster girl for whatever it is that they're too scared to do themselves. We'd all like to see you vanquish the bullies and fist-pump the air as we read about it, but having read your posts on the thread, I don't think that's the role for you.

If you go to HR, the atmosphere will become even more unbearable for you during the investigation and in the aftermath. Nasty women like that, who think their behaviour is justified will not change their mindset, even when their behaviour is made explicit to them and they are threatened with consequences; they will just take it underground and find more insidious ways to bully, which will be even more harmful to you.

These people are NOT the people you need to expend money and time eating with outside of work. They are draining your energy, harming your mental health and probably making you miserable at home. The best thing for you is to leave this toxic workplace.

There's a couple of things I feel you could do:

Apply for another job and when you get one (and not before references, contract etc), make a formal complaint to HR. The atmosphere will be very difficult for you, but you're helping other women in the workplace, so it's worth it. You can always go "sick" if the situation becomes untenable in those last few weeks.

If you cannot get another job, take the money you would spend on the meal and taxis each month out in cash, put it in a jar and when you have enough buy yourself something beautiful, like a good handbag, a ring, perfume. Something you can take to work and secretly enjoy, look at and smile to yourself while they're planning an evening out. Even better if one of them admires your purchase.

Or you could just get another job, leave their goodbye flowers and card on your desk, walk out and never give them another thought.

So it was only a few people who went at the start but it has evolved over time to the point where everyone in your team is invited except you.

Maybe the others in the team weren't invited but simply expressed an interest in joining in?

I’ve always felt like an outsider - not sure why - maybe because I’m part-time. I have just never felt like I fitted in. However we all have a laugh and I thought I was liked and quite a valued member of the team.

By the sounds of it, you are liked and a valued member of the team.

Is there any reason that they are under the impression that you would have no interest in these nights out? For example, do they all go out and get extremely drunk but that they are under the impression that you don't drink alcohol?

What if you said "ooh actually I fancy a walk, mind if I come with you?"

I experienced exclusion in a job I had. There were 3 of us working in our location for a company that had offices based across 3 counties. My two colleagues would go out every day, mainly just to get takeaway drinks etc, not once did they ask if I wanted anything brought back and I had to wait until they got back for my lunch break even though staggered times had been agreed due to lone working and we were all told we absolutely could not go out together. Eventually I raised it with our manager and was told it shouldn’t be happening and they would be spoken to about it, particularly from an H&S point. Nothing changed, I realised I was working for a toxic company as things got steadily worse. I also realised over a longer period of time that they were looking to manage me out. I left and felt nothing but joy to be out of such an environment.

Completely agree. This is something your workplace should stamp down on immediately.

All those saying HR can't dictate what employees do outside work -

Of course they can't. But they can sure as hell do something about being excluded in work, which is what's happening when OPs colleagues are wittering on to each other about lifts and arrangements and outfits for an event to which OP isn't invited.

I need to print this out and stick it on the wall.

I used to waste so many years and so many tears pretzeling myself to figure out how I'd been at fault, when these teflon tantrummers attacked.

And the truth is the fault was always simple: I had caused them bad feelz. And that must never, ever happen.

You really think it's okay to constantly exclude 1 person from a working group of 7 and talk about it cheerfully in the office in front of said 1 person?

OP when you and that one colleague have your lunchtime walks, do you invite everyone to join? Do you just saunter out together in full view of others who might want to join?

I was responsible for a similar situation in an old job, and it was really just the difference between people who I saw as friends socially and work colleagues who I liked but wouldn't have had anything in common with out of work. But it was incredibly dumb of me. It wasn't just one person who was left out but I found out afterwards I'd caused a lot of upset. In your situation I'd feel the same, and would definitely say to the most appropriate person that there's a tipping point when these things start to feel like exclusion and bullying.

Do you have your dog with you on the meal days and is it straight after work? Where would your dog go if so? Or is it a go home and meet up later thing?

I just work with people that I find largely agreeable and pleasant. There's nothing in their contracts to say that they must like me or want me to socialise with them. And there's nothing in mine to say I have to entwine my life with any of them whether I like them or not.

Not everyone wants to go on a dog walk though. I very much doubt anyone is upset they haven’t been invited, any more than if they were going for a lunchtime run. Going out for a meal is completely different.

Excellent advice.

It’s covert bullying and anything hidden doesn’t like being put under the spotlight.
Hr might try to mediate an open dialogue between the op and the ‘ringleader’ to establish what the issue is.
The ringleader might act innocent and say it’s an oversight etc..and may carry on as before discreetly, but their card will marked and escalation will likely result in disciplinary action. That’s what HR can do.
Bringing it out into the open is also likely to rattle the people that are complicit in the exclusion, knowingly or unknowingly.
Also, I doubt if it’s bullying, that it will be limited to the monthly outings there will other things going on.
That is assuming it’s not just a misunderstanding, which can’t be established until the op speaks to the person responsible for organising the meals.

Bit leftfield, but would you consider inviting them all out to lunch on a different day? Include yourself by taking the initiative in a positive way instead of feeling left out and unempowered.

Very often these things spring up organically and people tag in. Tell them it sounds like fun and you want to go!

Do you want to go? Tell them, "Sounds like fun! I'm free so I'll come along too!"

I don't know why people don't read the OP posts. It's clear that this is an organised formal dinner, not something that just happened organically that people can just pop along to. The OP explicitly said there wouldn't be an option to join last minute, and that it's something that they spend weeks organising, which have themes, and which require reservations and everyone blocking off time in their work calendars. It's obviously not a casual thing that people pop along to (like in Coffeetree's drinks example), but something formal with formal invitations for the reservations.

The person who was going didn't say "oh just pop along" which they would have done if it was a casual, organic thing; they tried to make an excuse as to why OP is not invited.

Do you have your dog with you on the meal days and is it straight after work? Where would your dog go if so? Or is it a go home and meet up later thing?

The organiser has a dog too, so that doesn't seem to be an issue.

It is so covert that everyone joins in.

You can’t organise a dinner for every colleague and exclude one person.

This isn’t about a group of colleagues getting together, which you keep pretending it is.

Are you seriously this obtuse?

Apparently so.

I'd certainly never invite you to a meal if we worked in the same place - and I doubt you would me.