To feel so excluded

[LucyD30]

So I work in an office in a team of 7 (at my particular office). The company is quite big - 4 or 5 offices with maybe 150 employees per office. My team are really close. We all get on really well and there is lots of banter. I’ve always felt like an outsider - not sure why - maybe because I’m part-time. I have just never felt like I fitted in. However we all have a laugh and I thought I was liked and quite a valued member of the team.
A few months ago I found out that another member of staff, who is in a different team to me but sits near us, has organised a regular meal out. I think a while ago it was only a few people who went but it has evolved over time. It has now got to the point where everyone in my team is invited except me. On the day when the meal takes place they all talk about it in front of me. The lady who organises it has always been really friendly towards me and I can’t think why I’ve been excluded. This afternoon was so humiliating as I was sat there while they were all talking about who to share lifts with and who was going back to whose house after work etc. I just sat there feeling so embarrassed- I didn’t know where to look. It’s put me in such a weird mood. I really thought I had a good working relationship with these people. We are an open plan office and so I didn’t have the guts to confront all of them. I just don’t know how to approach this.
i messaged my colleague to apologise for being distant and explained that I felt really excluded and embarrassed but she didn’t organise it and was trying to be discreet at least - and I don’t blame her for it. It just makes me dread going in.
should I have a quiet word with the lady who organises this? Or my boss? I shouldn’t feel like I’m choking back the tears every month when they do this but on the other hand I would hate to be invited out of pity.
i really didn’t think something like this would upset me this much!

I used to work in a place like this so I feel for you. One day in particular I remember a load went out for lunch and I couldn’t go until they were back, I was starving. When they waltzed back in I got straight up and said something and they all sniffed. It was a toxic place

I left because I got so fed up of it

I am quite forthright, I would speak to the manager and tell her what you’ve said here. Tell her you don’t know why you are being excluded but you insist on working from home on the days when these meals take place.
Also, if the invitation is not extended to everyone, then she should not be sending invitations to work emails snd using work time to organise it.

It's not bullying if they haven't actually told you that you cant go or have stopped you from going.

Not remotely true. 🫤

So many over the top responses about going to HR, changing jobs, bullying etc.

It sounds like the organiser took this on as a friendly thing to do, it's not an official department social. It was a small group, and grew. How did it grow? Probably by people asking her if they could join. It's not for her to seek people out to join. The bigger the group the more of a pain it is for her to find a restaurant booking.

Just say to her OP that you would love to join next time if possible, she probably thinks you aren't interested as neither you nor anyone else has indicated that you want to go.

I found out the other day that there have been 2 end of year drinks that I wasn't invited on (teacher). These are yearly apparently. Different situation as these are not spoken about. It's stung, it really has. They've gone right down in my estimations I can tell you. I can't see any reason why I've not been included. Anyway, I wouldn't go if they paid me now

When I messaged her she replied saying she was sorry and maybe it’s because I have kids. Our boss also has young kids and is invited (and goes).

@LucyD30 is your boss male or female? When you say you work part time, do you mean you leave earlier than the rest, or do fewer full days? Do you ever talk about not having much money? Or that sitting at home watching tv with DH is your favourite thing?

I’m not trying to make excuses for them at all, but it might be that they’ve somehow got the impression that you couldn’t or wouldn’t want to go out. They should still ask of course, but it might not be malicious.

Well, that would be the sensible thing to do, but it’s MN and they love the drama! 🤷🏼‍♀️

I think the fact that they have it locked in their work calendars as a private event speaks volumes!

This is a difficult situation and I really feel for you.

However a lot of the advice to invite yourself is plain wrong. If you're not invited, never push for an invite. It needs to come naturally or it will be the pity invite you want to avoid. It's not to say there is anything wrong with you, it is very much on them.

It's likely that they all like you but there is something more that they have that makes this meet up occur.

Now you've messaged your colleague, she will likely raise it with them when appropriate. Hopefully, in a friendly manner. They must be able to meet who they want to without you going to tell on them. Would you rather they weren't open and you found out they were being secretive? That is more bullying. They must think either you don't want to go or that you are aware of the reason you aren't invited - such as not that close.

Why don't you ask the organiser outright why you've not been included. The passive approach hasn't got you anywhere.

If she's deliberately being mean then you'll find out but maybe she thinks you don't want to go for some other reason.

Then you can decide what to do ie involve HR.

Just say tp the woman who organises it that you'd love to go next time so pls add me to the invitation.

That's it, its that simple.

If your boss is going along with your whole team except you, then this exclusion is a form of discrimination and should not happen. It is not simply a social event outside of work. I would have a word with your boss to explain how you are feeling and then HR. What they are doing is not OK

Just turn up, OP. Absolutely rude of them to do this and hopefully it'll make them realise you are available in future.

Have people missed the post where OP emailed her friendly colleague who is invited?

It's obviously not as simple as just saying I'd like to come along.

The lunches thing. That happened to me years ago. I left.

If it were me, when they talk about it in front of me I’d say “am I invited?”. In a joking way but passive aggressive so they have the opportunity to say yes or not and it puts them on the spot.

Then depending on what they say:

They reply, awkward laughing, my reply : “I’m serious?”

They reply, “oh yes sorry we forgot” me if I want to go “don’t worry, where and when?”

If I don’t want to go “ha I’m just kidding I have plans already, maybe next time”

They give no reply, I’d follow with “is this a work event?” “Sounds fun” “almost everyone is going alright?”

I would feel the same as you OP. I think approaching the organiser directly is how I would do it. But I would totally stress over it. I hope things get resolved, as this sounds upsetting.

I think I would be looking for another job!

Do you ever have appraisals or one to ones with your boss? If you do, I would wait until one of these private meetings and if he/she asks how you are / how things are going / pay review etc I would say ‘Well I enjoy the work and THINK I get on with the team, but I’m so confused because I’m deliberately excluded EVERY SINGLE MONTH from your nights out. I’ve been here six years! I can only assume you must all dislike me. Or have I done something? But I’m so confused, because day to day I get on well with everyone. I’ve been thinking actually….rather than leave the company over this, which I have considered, can I WFH on the days you have your little get togethers, because it’s so upsetting hearing you all talk about it all day and I might sound like a petulant child but I’m fed up of being excluded. It’s getting me down’.

See what your boss says, if an employee said that to me I would be devastated and ashamed and be furious that it had got to this point.

Wow, I never imagined I’d get so many replies.

I thought I got on quite well with the lady who organises it. We have caught up outside of work once ir twice, though that was a few years ago. We both take our dogs to work and will take them out together most Fridays.

it wouldn’t be weird to work from home on the days they do these meals because I spend some of my time working from home anyway and occasionally we will wfh on random days.

I don’t want to make a big thing about it because, although I would have loved to have been invited and would have absolutely gone, I really don’t want an invitation because I’ve asked for it. We are too small a group for it to be an oversight.

if it were a case of everyone turning up to lunch or going out for a meal after work I would definitely ask if I can join them but it wouldn’t be appropriate to do that for these dinners. They have a theme and get organised weeks in advance. They are held at nice restaurants and there is no way I could just turn up on the day.

although I’m part time I work a full day on a Friday and so finish the same time as others. My colleague who said maybe it’s because I have kids is a friend - I genuinely like her and she and I get on well. None of this is her fault and she was quite mortified that I wasn’t invited. She works from home on Fridays but came in especially for it yesterday.

my boss doesn’t organise it - she just goes to it. She is the same age as me with one younger child.

I might have a word with the organiser to explain how it has made me feel but I certainly don’t want a pity invitation and I’ll let her know that. I guess I just wonder what good any of this will do as there isnt really a resolution- apart from them to be more discreet so that I don’t sit there wanting the ground to swallow me up on the days it happens!

I think approaching HR wouldn’t be good unless I look for a new job as I’ve got to work with them all and all HR can do is get them to take it to WhatsApp or something and be more discreet - which would be nice but would drive a bigger wedge between me and them.

really appreciate the comments, thank you all!

I feel the same. In my office I’d join in and ask what they’re talking about & assume an invite would follow.

Anyone with an ounce of HR knowledge would say this is potentially bullying/exclusion. In this situation - so no evidence (i don't think?) of why they might be doing this other than thoughtlessness at this stage - they'd advise you to just raise it with the organiser or your manager first and informally. Doesnt have to be a big deal just a "hey these get togethers sound lovely can I get in on the next one?" type thing.

What happens then will reveal whether it is actually a bullying/exclusion situation that warrants HR stepping in to advise your Manager or the organisers manager, or both, on how they need to handle it.

Hope it gets sorted op, at this point don't get weighed down with thoughts that this is deliberate at this stage. It might just be genuine thoughtlessness, which is still shit but not as bad as it being deliberate. This is why HR usually advise to approach the person first (situation dependent).

But why didn’t your so called friend invite you? “I’m so sorry, of COURSE you can come along!”
Why is the “organiser” in charge of who gets invited?
Its giving primary school “sorry I don’t know if you can play, it’s not my ball” vibes, no?
Such a weird dynamic for a group of adults.

I really don’t know. There was a bit more to it.
Briefly, one person on team joined and no one liked her. She was really rude and quite crass. Had something nasty to say about everyone.
when their out of work activities started she was included. And it was made obvious to me.
The lady who was aggressive in the meeting was someone who I would have considered a friend.
None of it made sense then and still doesn’t now.
I eventually left but had some contact with the supposed friend some years after and I actually think on reflection she was really embarrassed by her behaviour. Whereas I didn’t need to be as I had done nothing wrong.
Lots of people say jealousy with these things but really doesn’t make it any easier to handle at the time. I was truly devastated back then.

I'm not sure if this has been suggested already but maybe you could ask to speak to everyone in your office on one of the days they are going out for a dinner and ask if they can just keep conversation about their evening to a minimum because it's distracting you and everyone from working? And if you feel brave enough just say that you also don't want to have to keep hearing them all chatting about it because you always feel like crap knowing you haven't been invited. Honesty really is the best policy and to be honest it should be brought to their attention how your feeling even if they aren't the ones organising these get togethers there is no excuse to not get you included in this! And they should be working not chatting about social plans.

I see this from both sides, proper work 'do' yes everyone should be invited, inappropriate not to.
Social dinner with friends, surely you go with those you get on best with and have relationships outside of work? When I was about 25 I worked in an office with various functions/departments a group of us went out about once a month, it was usually quite a drunken affair, we didn't invite everyone, to be honest I assumed 60 year old Sheila from amounts wouldn't want to go to wetherspoons and then a club with a bunch of twenty somethings. It was just friends meeting up.
If we were planning something that was more of an event eg a comedy night with dinner we would invite everyone.
I'm not sure it's bullying if you don't invite every person in the office when you go out to dinner with some work friends.
Now it's the other way around, some of the younger people in my office went to the cinema last week and it ended up in a raucous night where someone had to practically be carried home. On a Wednesday night. I wasn't invited , I was ok with that, it's a group I get on well with at work but we wouldn't socialise much outside of it.