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Original poster

To feel so excluded

266 replies

LucyD30 · 28/07/2023 23:20

So I work in an office in a team of 7 (at my particular office). The company is quite big - 4 or 5 offices with maybe 150 employees per office. My team are really close. We all get on really well and there is lots of banter. I’ve always felt like an outsider - not sure why - maybe because I’m part-time. I have just never felt like I fitted in. However we all have a laugh and I thought I was liked and quite a valued member of the team.
A few months ago I found out that another member of staff, who is in a different team to me but sits near us, has organised a regular meal out. I think a while ago it was only a few people who went but it has evolved over time. It has now got to the point where everyone in my team is invited except me. On the day when the meal takes place they all talk about it in front of me. The lady who organises it has always been really friendly towards me and I can’t think why I’ve been excluded. This afternoon was so humiliating as I was sat there while they were all talking about who to share lifts with and who was going back to whose house after work etc. I just sat there feeling so embarrassed- I didn’t know where to look. It’s put me in such a weird mood. I really thought I had a good working relationship with these people. We are an open plan office and so I didn’t have the guts to confront all of them. I just don’t know how to approach this.
i messaged my colleague to apologise for being distant and explained that I felt really excluded and embarrassed but she didn’t organise it and was trying to be discreet at least - and I don’t blame her for it. It just makes me dread going in.
should I have a quiet word with the lady who organises this? Or my boss? I shouldn’t feel like I’m choking back the tears every month when they do this but on the other hand I would hate to be invited out of pity.
i really didn’t think something like this would upset me this much!

OP posts:
OhNoOhNo · 29/07/2023 05:30

Definitely have a word with your boss.

This is exclusionary behaviour and therefore bullying. If they don’t address it, it will impact you more as time goes on.

We are social creatures, the feelings you describe at being excluded are normal. Please don’t them make out you’re sensitive.

I would also be looking for a new job and not be doing any favours for any of them in the mean time.

faerieland · 29/07/2023 05:38

I have this at my work. I was left out of the secret Santa two years running. They claimed it was an oversight but I don’t see how. They all went on and on about it in front of me. How come no one thought to ask if I was doing it or not? My answer is that they knew I hadn’t been included.

I am looking for another job. It’s evil behaviour in my book. I can’t imagine being this mindlessly cruel.

faerieland · 29/07/2023 05:41

It isn’t ok at all. Why go on and on about it? It’s to get a reaction. I had it done to me. I concluded in the end that they’re jealous as fuck of me.

xPeaceXx · 29/07/2023 05:57

I feel for you @LucyD30 I used to work with younger people and they would have included me, even if I didn't always go. Where I am now, the age profile is my own and yet they exclude me. In your shoes, I'd say well, as you're all chatting about this in front of me I'm assuming I'm invited Grin

My colleague does the most annoying thing when she goes out for coffee with two other colleagues she says ''can I bring you back anything?''. What am I supposed to say to that! It translates in my head as ''im excluding you and I know it but I don't want to be that person so I'll offer you a coffee and then I'm a nice person again''. It's that part that I hate. If you're going to exclude me, own it.

xPeaceXx · 29/07/2023 06:01

@faerieland, when I find a new job, I'm going to walk out the door at five, might take my cup, might not. I might say ''see ya'' if I meet anybody's eye between my desk and the door. I actually thought it would be a good idea to take the option of working with women my own age (50 something) but they've all been each others' colleagues since about 1945. It's actually weird. Preferred being the eldest in a bunch of 30 somethings. At least they had the attitude that you go in to work, hopefully it's pleasant, but we'll all bring our best self touch wood, and we'll all be somewhere else in a few years. They were right. Their attitude was better. I know I can't make any conclusions based on two experiences. I'm generalising et cetera.

XelaM · 29/07/2023 06:19

Wow this is horrible behaviour and I would outright ask the organiser if you've done something to upset her or if she's just a bitch (not in those words 😅). I have never experienced this in any office. People generally want to have a nice working environment and don't go out of their way to be mean to anyone (at least where I work).

faerieland · 29/07/2023 06:37

xPeaceXx · 29/07/2023 06:01

@faerieland, when I find a new job, I'm going to walk out the door at five, might take my cup, might not. I might say ''see ya'' if I meet anybody's eye between my desk and the door. I actually thought it would be a good idea to take the option of working with women my own age (50 something) but they've all been each others' colleagues since about 1945. It's actually weird. Preferred being the eldest in a bunch of 30 somethings. At least they had the attitude that you go in to work, hopefully it's pleasant, but we'll all bring our best self touch wood, and we'll all be somewhere else in a few years. They were right. Their attitude was better. I know I can't make any conclusions based on two experiences. I'm generalising et cetera.

bet you’re looking forward to the day you can leave!

It’s a shame they’re like that. You’d expect some common ground wouldn’t you? The younger people sound much nicer.

The woman who goes out with coffees - I completely get it. It’s like they want to position you as the unreasonable one by being reasonable and normal occasionally!

Windowcleaning · 29/07/2023 06:40

Given that your boss goes to these dinners and obviously knows that you don't, I think you should speak to her.

Something along the lines of 'I'm feeling excluded from the team. I'm the only person not invited to these evenings out that are organised in work time and on work computers. I find it really upsetting and it's affecting my work as I can't concentrate when people are talking about these events that I'm not invited to all day. I'm concerned that I'm missing out on team building, which isn't ideal as I'm part-time and I recognise how important it is. I thought our team all got on well - have I missed something?'

Although these evenings are being organised by someone else, your manager is the one with a duty of care (for want of a better expression) towards you, and it's shitty of her to condone this exclusionary behaviour.

ChitterChatteringChat · 29/07/2023 06:53

Hi OP, I’d definitely speak to your boss as this sounds incredibly hurtful.
Ive been through similar in my last job and it was one of the reasons I eventually left. It was one person who arranged the evenings out and she’d include everyone in her the team and even ex team members, leaving me out. The manager didn’t seem to care either. It was very cliquey. Are you close to anyone there? Perhaps they can help include you?
Let us know how you get on.

Porageeater · 29/07/2023 06:55

Windowcleaning · 29/07/2023 06:40

Given that your boss goes to these dinners and obviously knows that you don't, I think you should speak to her.

Something along the lines of 'I'm feeling excluded from the team. I'm the only person not invited to these evenings out that are organised in work time and on work computers. I find it really upsetting and it's affecting my work as I can't concentrate when people are talking about these events that I'm not invited to all day. I'm concerned that I'm missing out on team building, which isn't ideal as I'm part-time and I recognise how important it is. I thought our team all got on well - have I missed something?'

Although these evenings are being organised by someone else, your manager is the one with a duty of care (for want of a better expression) towards you, and it's shitty of her to condone this exclusionary behaviour.

Yes I agree with this. We have a dignity and respect policy at work which this kind of behaviour would go against.

MrsRachelDanvers · 29/07/2023 07:05

So could you not bring it up at work? I’d be tempted to shame them by being open. The problem with things like this is that the person affected feels embarrassed about bringing it up-but they should be the ones who are embarrassed. So no, I wouldn’t have a quiet word with my boss, I’d casually ask in the open plan office, ‘So how come I haven’t been invited to these meals then?’. It may be that they thought you weren’t interested-or that a malicious person has made something up. But they need to know how you feel and that it’s not on!

Tara24 · 29/07/2023 07:11

I'd say something to the organiser. I'd ask her if there's anything I've done to offend her, as I can't help noticing that I'm the only one not invited to the meal. I'd present it as wanting to sort the underlying issue out, rather than the meal invite.

She will more than likely feel obliged to invite you , and yes it may be forced on her. But chances are that once you start going it will be fine.

I wouldn't go to the boss or HR. I think it will cause more issues as I doubt it's a group campaign against you. I would guess it's at the most one or two people being arses.

It may also just be a misunderstanding.

Voerendaal · 29/07/2023 07:15

Mari9999 · 29/07/2023 01:13

@LucyD30
Please do not involve your boss or the HR. This is not bullying on any level, and your company has no involvement in what your collective work mates do on their free time. This is not grade school and the advice to tell your manager or HR smacks of telling the teacher that Johnny won't be your friend .

If you wish to be included, the adult thing to do would be to speak to the organizer and let her know that the events sound like fun and that you would like your name to be added to the notification list.

Chances are that your name was inadvertently left off of some original list , and it is an oversight that no one noticed.

Sometimes , things happen as a result of simple oversight or error, and there is no malicious intent. However even in the case of innocent oversight, the recommendation that you in effect " tell on the organizer" is a sure way to become a pariah in your office.

This is bullying. It is toxic and non inclusive. I have seen this behaviour and believe me HR do take it seriously. It is horrible and makes people on the outside of cliques feel really awful. By all means have friends at work, socialise with them outside work but be discreet and tactful. If it is discussed in the workplace in front of someone not invited it is bullying.

ZebraD · 29/07/2023 07:19

I had this years ago and felt exactly the same. I actually didn’t want to join in, in the end because it was just women being bitchy by not inviting me. In the end, my boss who had heard everything knew I was upset. It turned out he was as well. He knew exactly what was going on so there was a meeting with me, him and one of the girls I had got on well with for years. She was quite aggressive to my surprise in the meeting but actually could not say that I had done anything wrong. So…I didn’t want to join in any longer and I just wasn’t interested in joining in anymore. So that was that. Do you really want to get involved socialising with a bunch that don’t include you?! I think it will spell trouble. No matter what happens you will feel left out. I would explain to your boss how you are feeling and work from home on the days you find hard. Why can’t people just be nice to each other / best wishes and good luck 😉

MisplacedAndDiscovered · 29/07/2023 07:24

Social exclusion is bullying. This would not be tolerated in my workplace.

We often have randoms attend our Christmas meal. Our team is based around the country, people on their own around the office are invited.

I would not talk about an event unless everyone in the group were invited, it is very rude.

I would leave them to it. You have mentioned it to someone already. The right thing to do would have been to include you then. They did not.

I would not be swapping days off or covering more that I was absolutely required to. Fuck 'em. Rise above it all.

Make your own plans? Either lunch or coffee with a work friend or with outside friends. Maybe a date night or picnic?

xPeaceXx · 29/07/2023 07:25

The sad fact is that sometimes a group needs the identity of what it's not to hold it together.

And that 'What We're Not' can be extremely nebulous. new to the company? but x is newer, middle aged? but hang on, the queen bee is closest to me in age? It's random.

MumUndone · 29/07/2023 07:26

Mari9999 · 29/07/2023 01:13

@LucyD30
Please do not involve your boss or the HR. This is not bullying on any level, and your company has no involvement in what your collective work mates do on their free time. This is not grade school and the advice to tell your manager or HR smacks of telling the teacher that Johnny won't be your friend .

If you wish to be included, the adult thing to do would be to speak to the organizer and let her know that the events sound like fun and that you would like your name to be added to the notification list.

Chances are that your name was inadvertently left off of some original list , and it is an oversight that no one noticed.

Sometimes , things happen as a result of simple oversight or error, and there is no malicious intent. However even in the case of innocent oversight, the recommendation that you in effect " tell on the organizer" is a sure way to become a pariah in your office.

Bollocks.

I'm a head of HR. It's bullying.

Cookiecrumblepie · 29/07/2023 07:28

Please do not just have verbal conversations! Screenshot evidence of meeting invites, email your concerns and keep a clear and accurate record of behaviour over time. Build a case against your line manager as it is their responsibility to ensure a bully free workplace. If your work HR don’t have it seriously, you can go to an employment lawyer. You will likely get compensation if you have to resign. Don’t downplay this behaviour. It is bullying.

Voerendaal · 29/07/2023 07:30

I don’t think you have a very good boss. You could always say jokingly - are you excluding me on purpose? As I can see on work calendars and hear you all talking about your night out together? See her reaction - try not to be emotional. She can cover her tracks quickly and invite you or they can start planning outside of work. In reality it is bullying but when managers are involved in toxic behaviour like this you are probably better off looking for a different job

Cookiecrumblepie · 29/07/2023 07:32

Threenow · 29/07/2023 05:20

I thought OP was talking about a workplace, not a primary school!!!

Honestly, they are adults, surely they can sort it out themselves, and a regular meal out has nothing to do with a workplace.

If you want to join them OP then just ask if you can.

Show quote history

No this is a workplace and therefore employees need to behave professionally. I know employment law. This is definitely bullying. Even if it takes place outside of work, it’s being arranged at work, with only work people, it’s being discussed at work. It is a workplace issue. Same as if two people are sleeping together outside of work. You need to declare your relationship. Just because you’re having sex at home doesn’t mean it’s not work related!

faerieland · 29/07/2023 07:33

ZebraD · 29/07/2023 07:19

I had this years ago and felt exactly the same. I actually didn’t want to join in, in the end because it was just women being bitchy by not inviting me. In the end, my boss who had heard everything knew I was upset. It turned out he was as well. He knew exactly what was going on so there was a meeting with me, him and one of the girls I had got on well with for years. She was quite aggressive to my surprise in the meeting but actually could not say that I had done anything wrong. So…I didn’t want to join in any longer and I just wasn’t interested in joining in anymore. So that was that. Do you really want to get involved socialising with a bunch that don’t include you?! I think it will spell trouble. No matter what happens you will feel left out. I would explain to your boss how you are feeling and work from home on the days you find hard. Why can’t people just be nice to each other / best wishes and good luck 😉

Out of interest, what do you think her problem was, to get so aggressive? I’ve had this at work too when confronting them and I can’t think of anything I have done.

One of the managers at my place took a shine to me and told me how attractive I was. I can’t help but think that in my case it has been jealousy.

I do think they by and large this behaviour from women is what it boils down to - they feel threatened by someone.

xPeaceXx · 29/07/2023 07:35

Instead of making a joke of it and saying ''are you excluding me on purpose'' tweak it and make it the ''shine a light on it'' technique.

eg

''I feel like everybody except me has been invited. Is that the intention?''

And then just listen to the response. They'll probably clamour to insist that you're invited, it was an oversight, no no no you've got it all wrong.

The trick is to not 'shame' them at this point. Simply say ''I'm so glad I got it wrong''. Staple gun on the smile and believe their patter.

It may seem embarrassing but they'll be more embarrassed and it shows backbone. Backbone is what gets you invited next time. Not charm, not picking your battles, not small talk, not remembering birthdays. Nope.

OhNoOhNo · 29/07/2023 07:36

Mari9999 · 29/07/2023 01:13

@LucyD30
Please do not involve your boss or the HR. This is not bullying on any level, and your company has no involvement in what your collective work mates do on their free time. This is not grade school and the advice to tell your manager or HR smacks of telling the teacher that Johnny won't be your friend .

If you wish to be included, the adult thing to do would be to speak to the organizer and let her know that the events sound like fun and that you would like your name to be added to the notification list.

Chances are that your name was inadvertently left off of some original list , and it is an oversight that no one noticed.

Sometimes , things happen as a result of simple oversight or error, and there is no malicious intent. However even in the case of innocent oversight, the recommendation that you in effect " tell on the organizer" is a sure way to become a pariah in your office.

I think you need to go on a workplace bullying and harassment course, as this is definitely bullying.

I hope you’re not a line manager or HR.

Voerendaal · 29/07/2023 07:39

Very sad that there are people here who don’t see this as bullying. Ignoring it and not recognising this just perpetuates toxic work culture. Please if you have told OP that this is not bullying take a minute to look critically at your own work environment. Are you the self confident popular person who has work friends. ( nothing wrong with this) but is there someone on the periphery who is less confident, shy, who might feel not part of the group . (Different race, had children, doesn’t have children - just not the same) - by excluding this person you are bullying them

xPeaceXx · 29/07/2023 07:42

@faerieland I reckon some people just skip through the bit where they reflect on what they've been told. ''I'm hearing something negative about myself, is there any merit to it?'' it doesn't even hit the side of their ear. They go at the speed of light and they arrive at HOW DARE YOU instantly. My mother is like this! I'm so lucky Sad but I recongise this way of going through the world. These types will receive NO feedback, even if the feedback is ''it makes me feel bad when you exclude me''.

Their reaction will be ''how dare you shame me and make me feel bad'' and then they're the victim of you. And they 100% believe they are the victim.