To think SIL can't really accuse parents of favouritism.

[Rigg]

Long-time lurker, but first time poster.
I'm just looking for some advice from mumsnetters as this situation is causing problems for my family. :(

When SIL had her first baby, she was the classic highly anxious first-time mum and unfortunately she came up with some bizarre rules that alienated most people in the family. It ranged from reasonable requests such as no one was allowed to hold the baby without her permission to restricting contact with the baby if she felt we weren't good enough (aka entertaining) company for her child.

Whilst my parents were very sympathetic to begin with and really complaint with her many rules, they soon grew tired of it. She would for example only allow my parents to see the baby once a week, but would expect them to babysit at short notice. When she once needed someone to help and my parents had an urgent family matter to attend to she threw a fit and accused them of not caring enough. My sibling tried to reason with her, but she has tendency to start fights over small things - such as the baby returning with some food stains one her onesie - so he has now given up trying to reason with her.

Over the years, this truly took a turn for the worse as she would expect free and regular childcare from my parents so she could continue to work part-time. However, despite my parents being elderly and doing her a favour - she would give them a list of instructions and would scream at them if they were unable to meet every single requirement on that list. She would for example expect them to take her children out on days out but she would not contribute anything towards the cost. She would regularly remind my parents that they were fortunate to spend time with her children.

After Covid, I had two children in a short span and we now also rely on our parents to help with childcare and support. This has of course caused a huge issue with SIL because my parents are now not able to help her out as much. Furthermore, they find helping me out much easier than her because they do not feel criticised and anxious all the time.

Unfortunately, SIL has now decided that my parents are favouring my children and she has sent some vile and abusive texts.
We do not want to upset my brother, but we are not sure how to handle this situation amicably. They are still looking after her children on 2 days she requested, but they can no longer help her out as much. I also feel they are reluctant to take her children as what should be a nice day is often ruined by SIL at the end of the day. :(

Set a good example and pay for childcare - honestly your parents deserve a break in retirement.

@noglow
It's a difficult situation because for too long we tried to resolve things amicably and over the weekend things have escalated.
My parents are also reluctant to just give up on the two days of childcare for her DC as they know they won't be able to afford nursery fees on their salaries alone. :(
A few months ago, SIL actually tried guilt-trip my parents by suggesting that a lot of grandparents pay for private school for their grandchildren. :(

It sounds like DPs actively want to be involved in their DGCs lives.
A half day a week is not the problem, it's the 2 days per week with no thanks or politeness that are the issue.

she would expect free and regular childcare from my parents so she could continue to work part-time.

She is still getting her 2 days of childcare for free

Why do you keep writing as if childcare is SIL’s responsibility and your parents are doing HER a favour?

From the OP After Covid, I had two children in a short span and we now also rely on our parents to help with childcare and support. This has of course caused a huge issue with SIL because my parents are now not able to help her out as much.

So do you rely on your parents for childcare or not?

You say "she" a lot but really it's "they". They demanded no-notice childcare so they could carry on working - childcare is not just your SiL's responsibility.

As a wider point YANBU but what do your parents want to do next ? Repair the relationship with new, stronger boundaries or distance themselves? Either way your brother needs to grow a spine and stop devolving all responsibility for childcare to his wife.

@kweeble @rookiemere
Honestly my parents worship their grandchildren and they really like spending time with them. It's the unreasonable demands that are the issue.
Some examples:
No chocolate, biscuits or ice cream (even in moderation - just blanket ban)
Children should have structured activities during the day (no TV not even kids TV in moderation)
They should come home clean (which is fine, but her standards are ridiculous)
She expects them to take her children to expensive activities (not free ones like a park, soft play or children's museum). She doesn't reimburse my parents either. For example, she expected them to take the kids to Woburn Safari Park (which is a quite a long drive and costs a fortune) :(
My parents want to take all the DGC, but they cannot afford it always for all 4 :(

You don't like your SIL is what it really comes down to

Someone needs to nip this in the bud. If my partner ever dared kickoff at my mum and dad that'd be the end of us. If your brother won't stand up to her and your parents won't put their foot down then, knowing what she's like, then i don't think there's any advice to give

Your parents need to establish some boundaries. It’s difficult but will help if they put them to your brother and sil together.

“we love to help out with children but this is the extent of our offer and financial commitment” then list activities etc like the park. If sil wants them to go to Woburn then your parents need to ask her for the tickets she’s booked and paid for.

My mum looks after my daughter sometimes in holidays to balance the cost of holiday clubs and I expect her to come back filthy and full of ice cream - it’s a sign of a great day and makes me feel better than I can’t afford to be off every holiday with her.

@Thesearmsofmine

Please read the message about the professional qualification on Fridays. DC don't go in on Fridays as I only work part-time. I just wanted some help with this which my parents were happy to provide.

@Lacucuracha
Read the section about my DB and his wife splitting childcare fees and days off work evenly? DB is looking after DC on of his days and pays for childcare on other 2, she doesn't pay childcare for her share of the days - she expects my parents to cover the 2 days. DB explained they need to start paying for 4 days of childcare now. She doesn't want that as the fees are really expensive for additional days. :(

Way to go from zero to one hundred in ten seconds… part of her brother dealing with it is to help the SIL have an open and honest conversation with the parents. Do you think he should just ignore it and go and play golf or something? You think he has no agency in this? My point was that the OP doesn’t have to fix this on behalf of the SIL and brother. Plus I don’t know if you know this but families are units, they only operate when more than one cog is turning… but cogs turning may be lost on you.

Why doesn’t your brother reimburse your parents for the activities? Does he also think it’s ok to take his parents money like that?

Please see my above posts for an explanation as to why I always get dragged into her drama. It is easy to say establish your boundaries, but it's difficult with someone who is clearly unhinged.

Why do you always get dragged into her drama? Because she messages you? Block her. Because you have absolved your brother of any responsibility due to his conflict avoidance (that's gone really well, I see) and health-related depression? He doesn't get a free pass on dealing with his family because he has depression, he needs to prioritise whatever capacity he has on dealing with his family - or, if he's too unwell even to do that then you and your parents need to be considering how you can all best support him and SIL as their family goes through this terrible crisis. You can have it one way or the other, but not both.

Regarding her working hours, the cost of childcare was split between both of them. My brother would cover some days and she would cover the others. However, both of them needed the two days from my parents as childcare fees were astronomical.

So it wasn't in fact so that she could work. Why wasn't your brother asking his parents about doing childcare so that he could go to work? Why did your SIL have to do it?

Once a week for 15 mins and then expected them to drop everything if she needed help.

Were these visits always facilitated and hosted by her? Again, why did your brother not take responsibility for arranging times for his parents to see his child?

There are lots of little details in your post that make me think it's not just that SIL is a nasty piece of work. None of this adds up to me. It's all so one sided.

Did you ask or did your dad offer? You've described both things happening. I would say, you shouldn't have to ask. Your parents should decide how much childcare they want to do and then split it fairly between all their grandchildren. Boundaries. What do they think will happen if they refuse SIL's demands? Do they think she'll forbid them from seeing the children and your brother will just go along with that?

@DisquietintheRanks
Read above comment about how they split childcare - this is what they agreed when they had their DC. DB pays for his days at nursery and she doesn't because has my parents to cover hers.

DB has suggested they should start paying and not relying on my parents. She doesn't want that as the cost would be 1000-1200 extra per month.

@Spirallingdownwards
Are you my sister in law by any chance? 😂

Yeah this doesn’t all quite add up and I would love to hear your SIL take on this. I suspect the truth would fall somewhere in the middle.

But if she's only working part time why is your brother only paying for half of the childcare? If he works full time, he needs to pay for more. Don't they have a joint family pot for childcare costs?

It sounds like your parents need to say we are not a doormat and give her a ultimatum either stop being nasty or find alternative childcare. They are doing her a huge favour at the end of the day and she needs to treat them with respect.

I do understand some of her rules though sugar sends my DS mental and makes him harder to deal with so it's limited.
If she wants to do expensive activities then it's a simple OK we have checked that out it's X amount are you paying cash or transfer.

It sounds like she needs a head wobble though and agree your brother needs to tell her to stop berating your parents regardless of being depressed!

@ClementWeatherToday
Sorry to dripfeed.
I know all finance are shared because they of what they said themselves, and they were also gifted the deposit for their house by my parents.
Just before Covid, I had to loan them a significant amount of money (which they are repaying very slowly).
I hate to say this, but I strongly suspect DB is a victim of financial abuse. This is why we are worried about rocking the boat too much for him. He covers all costs for the household, whereas her money is hers. 😢Even when he buys something trivial, he has to consult with her beforehand.

If your SIL is only working part time, can she afford £1k-£1.2k in childcare costs out of her wage? That’s a lot to find if your DB isn’t covering any of the that extra amount.

Because she sounds so lovely doesn't she?

@Harrythehappypig
He does often reimburse them, but this causes huge arguments at home (some of which I have witnessed myself).
Furthermore, my SIL assumes that because DP no longer have a mortgage they should be treating her children.

I didn't get beyond "and would scream at them if they were unable to meet every single requirement on that list"

Regardless of any family connection, sense of duty, sense of fairness, desire to see the child and desire to help the parents etc etc, I don't know why anyone would engage with someone who screams at them.

She can calm the fuck down. What ever requests she has, whether they be batshit or more conventional, she can request them in a mature, adult way and then discuss any differences in opinion in the same manner.

Where are her own family in all this?

@Harrythehappypig
I suspect part of it will need to come out of her salary (which she at the moment keeps entirely to herself). But they will certainly need to look for cheaper childcare which is not easy because they are in a really expensive city! :(