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Original poster

Loud kids always come out on top

202 replies

23Elfie · 28/06/2023 14:18

Might be about to get flamed but here goes...

Is it me or do the louder kids always come out on top? And those that are the quieter, don't make a fuss kinda kids just get swept to the side?

Feeling like this about my DD, she's not overly confident but really tries her best and never throws a strop or complains if something doesn't go her way (to the teacher/coach/person in charge) just takes it on the chin and then gets upset at home.

Watched her today get totally mugged off at sports day, definitely came 3rd in a race although the 4th place person was very close, 4th place kid is a loud, bossy child who seems to always get their way and was awarded 3rd place to avoid a kick off I think.

That's just one example though - loud bossy kids who kick off if they don't get their way, always get the main parts in plays etc - quiet kids given the best parts.

Seems like the quiet kids get over looked constantly and I wish DD would speak up - but is it too much to ask for the quiet kids to get noticed without having to make a total show of everything they do?

Feel really deflated for DD on her behalf and don't know what else we can do to up her confidence to speak up a bit. She does a couple of sports clubs but it's the same there too, she joins in and plays well but there's always the golden kids in everything.

She has a group of friends but is never the 'leader' or if she has an idea the others don't seem to listen much - what can I do to get her to assert herself a little bit? I encourage as much as I can to speak up but not sure what else I can do?

OP posts:
SchoolShenanigans · 28/06/2023 14:26

YANBU. Extroverts do seem to have an advantage in most aspects of life.

But that doesn't mean your child can't be happy.

Personally I would complain about sports day. It's totally unacceptable to give 3rd place to the 4th place.

Work2live · 28/06/2023 14:29

I get you OP, and I think life is very much like this. During my career I’ve found that the louder people often advance more - people who speak more in meetings, and get their voice heard more (even if they don’t actually say much).

I don’t know what the answer is, but this is who your daughter is and it should be celebrated! Make sure she knows about all the great qualities she has so that she can gain confidence in those qualities and start to understand that she doesn’t need to be loud.

Definitely let her know that she can and should assert herself, but that’s a battle many quiet people fight for most of their lives I imagine (myself included)!

Notmineagain · 28/06/2023 14:31

I have a quiet, reserved and less confident child too. He is never the one to put himself forward or speak up. It's just his personality though.
It's also a big reason why we chose a private school.
His teachers have recognised that and are always coming up with ways to make sure 'he gets a turn too' without pushing him too hard. It's all these little things that has boosted his confidence. They also make very sure that the 'louder' children don't always get their way. All done in a very kind way. Eg. Our main play was last week. Ds had a very, important speaking role. So rather than make him feel stressed about having the spotlight on him, but also giving him a role that stands out they have included 2 other kids so they perform in a chorus. Brilliant idea and my ds is so happy with that. Can you speak to the teacher ? Find out if they can make little changes to accommodate your dd? Does she do any activities out of school. My ds also does drama and that has helped too.

Notmineagain · 28/06/2023 14:34

Watched her today get totally mugged off at sports day, definitely came 3rd in a race although the 4th place person was very close, 4th place kid is a loud, bossy child who seems to always get their way and was awarded 3rd place to avoid a kick off I think.

That would have upset me too! It would have definitely not have happened at our school. If any child did that, they would have been dealt with rather than rewarded. You should speak to the teacher op. If she's being overlooked in class too, that could be contributing to her being more reserved.

Clareanscombe1964 · 28/06/2023 14:35

Another perspective here, she is developing some really important skills. Listening, taking things in. These skills can be hugely important later in life, yes you can say the louder kids win in the first instance. But not
necessarily in the long run. Her ability to sit back and take it all in - those are some of the most successful people I’ve seen. And with time, when she’s a bit older and knows how
to use her voice more, well then it’s winning combo!!

Claricestarling1 · 28/06/2023 14:42

Totally agree..and so do loud adults 🙄

EVHead · 28/06/2023 14:43

Yep - I’ve suffered from this my whole life!

BoohooWoohoo · 28/06/2023 14:45

Yanbu
School in England is designed around extroverts unlike other countries which would prefer your DD's sort of attitude which would be interpreted as respectful and thoughtful.

Precipice · 28/06/2023 14:46

Clareanscombe1964 · 28/06/2023 14:35

Another perspective here, she is developing some really important skills. Listening, taking things in. These skills can be hugely important later in life, yes you can say the louder kids win in the first instance. But not
necessarily in the long run. Her ability to sit back and take it all in - those are some of the most successful people I’ve seen. And with time, when she’s a bit older and knows how
to use her voice more, well then it’s winning combo!!

Yes, she is, in terms of her own attitude and her own work.

What she's also likely to develop, unfortunately, is a sense of enraged passivity where she sees entitled loud ones get what they don't deserve at her expense and feels that there's nothing she can do to make things more just and not get taken advantage of.

Redraddisho27 · 28/06/2023 14:47

Yes! My three are quiet and well behaved and easily not noticed 😔

mumto2teenagers · 28/06/2023 14:47

I do agree, but don't think this is limited to schools and children. It is often the case throughout life, certainly true in most of the working environments I have been in, unless you have a really good manager.

LivingForPinkGin · 28/06/2023 14:53

This has been my life too. Always blended into the background, not making much noise. Was always overlooked in school for parts in plays and now unfortunately my son is following the same path. I am trying to teach him to use his voice and stand up if he wants something.

ComtesseDeSpair · 28/06/2023 14:54

Introversion isn’t the same as being shy or a pushover and I don’t think it’s always helpful to have this introverts v extroverts mindset. Speaking up about an unfair situation, such as somebody else being given the incorrect placing in a race, is about confidence and knowing what’s just, not being loud and extroverted. Your DD can learn those sorts of skills without being loud - drama classes, debating club, team sports. I’m a quiet introvert, but I’m also assertive and know how to use my voice and presence so as to get what I need to across, and they are learned not innate skills.

stbrandonsboat · 28/06/2023 14:58

Having had two children at completely opposite ends of the continuum, I can say that the loud one definitely received more attention and came out on top.

coxesorangepippin · 28/06/2023 15:03

Absolutely.

It's the same way at work too

Original poster
23Elfie · 28/06/2023 15:03

Thank you for all the replies so far! I agree it's true in adult life too.
I was fairly confident in that I would speak up at primary and secondary school, a narcissist ex destroyed that confidence for a good 7/8 years after we split and in now becoming more confident again. I try to encourage DD to be more confident in herself and let it shine x
She does netball and swimming clubs and gets on well with people but again, at netball there are a couple of really dominant girls who take over - i think the adults in charge need to shut them down at times!

DD is at the end of year 4 and I really want to grow her confidence so by the time she goes to secondary (unlikely to be with many from primary school as we don't live near primary school due to having to move 3 weeks before she started). I'm kinda hoping secondary will be a fresh start too but she needs to up the confidence levels - I'm doing my best to encourage her but if anyone has any good tips that would be great!

In her group of friends there are 6 girls and 2 of them are very confident, loud, bossy, the others not as much and DD definitely the quiet one. I'd love her to have a real bestie to bounce off with no power struggles xx

OP posts:
coxesorangepippin · 28/06/2023 15:03

It's very hard to teach though. You can't teach someone how to be extroverted

LittleMissUnreasonable · 28/06/2023 15:05

This. I was a quiet and working class child at school who did well (not excellent but pretty well) and often got ignored by the teachers focusing on the loud, privileged kids who would get praised for doing the absolute bare minimum.

MaggyNoodles · 28/06/2023 15:07

You're not wrong.

minipie · 28/06/2023 15:07

IME parts in a play often go to louder more confident children as the quiet ones don’t want to be the centre of attention and find it scary.

The loud kid being awarded 3rd place - if you’re sure your DD was quicker then that’s awful. But why didn’t you say something? Perhaps you are subconsciously setting an example of shrinking back and not speaking up?

DD is a loud child and has often got into trouble for interrupting or for being “bossy” in group situations. So it goes both ways I think. There is a happy medium of course!

JulieHoney · 28/06/2023 15:12

@BoohooWoohoo and @coxesorangepippin -
Being noisy or outgoing isn’t the same as being an extrovert.

Extroverts gain energy from being around people and find solitude draining. Introverts are the reverse. My very confident DH who can happily give presentations to large groups and hold his own in a debate is very much an introvert. He can do groups but they exhaust him.

Self confidence and projecting your voice can be taught. Assertiveness can be taught.

Workawayxx · 28/06/2023 15:13

Yes, I agree the louder kids often come out on top often. My DS is fairly quiet and studious and has been one of the few to be mixed around more in terms of classes (classes tend to be mixed age due to the size of the school) and been one of just 5 of his year in a class with 25 of the year above, twice now. It has dented his confidence tbh and meant he hasn't made such solid friendships as he's constantly separated from friends but I guess the school knew he wouldn't complain or disrupt the class at all so it was easier to pick him. I didn't realise it was detrimental to him till too late tbh.

I'd definitely contact the school about sports day, that's terrible OP.

MrsTerryPratchett · 28/06/2023 15:13

ComtesseDeSpair · 28/06/2023 14:54

Introversion isn’t the same as being shy or a pushover and I don’t think it’s always helpful to have this introverts v extroverts mindset. Speaking up about an unfair situation, such as somebody else being given the incorrect placing in a race, is about confidence and knowing what’s just, not being loud and extroverted. Your DD can learn those sorts of skills without being loud - drama classes, debating club, team sports. I’m a quiet introvert, but I’m also assertive and know how to use my voice and presence so as to get what I need to across, and they are learned not innate skills.

This. Assertiveness can be taught.

I find the digs about extroversion nasty, TBH. (Not you OP.) Extroverts can't help is any more than introverts. If you can't make yourself extroverted, we can't make ourselves introverted.

BoohooWoohoo · 28/06/2023 15:13

Ime this happens at school quite a lot. The adults sometimes take advantage of the fact that the quiet kids mistakenly think that yielding is the kind thing to do. For example I had to fight unfair situations like my child being forced to sit with the child with behaviour issues for months because the teacher knows that my child is unlikely to complain (There's 28 other kids and 39 school weeks so one child shouldn't have to tolerate it for months) My child was surprised when I complained and they were sat next to someone else the next day but it made me sad that they were putting up with it for months)

MrsTerryPratchett · 28/06/2023 15:14

Oh and unless you were at the finish line exactly, you don't know who came 3rd. Also, it's sports day. Teaching children it doesn't matter in the least is important.

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