Loud kids always come out on top

[23Elfie]

Might be about to get flamed but here goes...

Is it me or do the louder kids always come out on top? And those that are the quieter, don't make a fuss kinda kids just get swept to the side?

Feeling like this about my DD, she's not overly confident but really tries her best and never throws a strop or complains if something doesn't go her way (to the teacher/coach/person in charge) just takes it on the chin and then gets upset at home.

Watched her today get totally mugged off at sports day, definitely came 3rd in a race although the 4th place person was very close, 4th place kid is a loud, bossy child who seems to always get their way and was awarded 3rd place to avoid a kick off I think.

That's just one example though - loud bossy kids who kick off if they don't get their way, always get the main parts in plays etc - quiet kids given the best parts.

Seems like the quiet kids get over looked constantly and I wish DD would speak up - but is it too much to ask for the quiet kids to get noticed without having to make a total show of everything they do?

Feel really deflated for DD on her behalf and don't know what else we can do to up her confidence to speak up a bit. She does a couple of sports clubs but it's the same there too, she joins in and plays well but there's always the golden kids in everything.

She has a group of friends but is never the 'leader' or if she has an idea the others don't seem to listen much - what can I do to get her to assert herself a little bit? I encourage as much as I can to speak up but not sure what else I can do?

All comes out in the wash when they pick up their GCSE results.

I had that quiet child at primary. Still quiet at secondary but ended up well respected by her peers and got the best results in her year.

She bloomed during four years at uni and is now very successful in her chosen career.

Being the quiet one isn't a disadvantage.

This advice is beautiful. I’ve spent my life so far feeling like your daughter OP and wish I’d read this when I was younger. I’ve spent so long wishing I was louder and berating myself for not being more outgoing instead of focusing on the things I am good at. It’s really dented my confidence in the long run. It’s exhausting and demoralising trying to be someone you’re not.

I think the behaviour you are calling out here isn't extroversion. It's just cheating. And this is a common behaviour you'll find in both introverts and extroverts.

Having a confident, outgoing personality and being someone enjoys the company of others is something quite different. And it's why everything is getting so factional on this thread.

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Are you trying to bully me yeah for standing up for quieter DC?

@Pinkscaf you can stand up for the children without slagging off and insulting other children. You posts do rather imply that you don't understand what bullying is. You think it's disagreeing with you while you call people names. Hint: in this example YOU'RE the bully.

Dd1 had a great teacher year 6 primary. He said she doesnt say much but when she does speak up it is always worth listening to. Thought that was lovely. DH is basically the same and is a very successful solicitor. Keeping your counsel knowing when to shut up and not to witter on is a valued skill in some jobs!

Oh did you not notice those criticising you above for the same?

For me yes as a child. I always wanted to be alone, had 2 best friends and would go off and hide and read a book when friends came over.

Didn’t help that my DM was super extrovert but in her defence she did force me to try things and go places that I’d never otherwise go. I went to a private school for 3 years in secondary school anc I really should’ve gone there from the start, DM couldn’t afford it by herself but her DM my nana certainly could afford to send both me and DB to private school (they are and were dire). Luckily in adulthood despite not having a great education ivr succeeded and grown in confidence but can attest to loud and confident people often getting their own way or ahead and even bullying in the workplace.

I now go out of my way to avoid loud, extrovert women in work because it can go either way, either they’ll champion you and like you, or they’ll want to get on and ignore you mostly or they’ll try to bully you or other team members. One of my last bosses was quite extrovert but tried to bully me as a temp to go in after covid 19 first broke out despite my having 2 Immune risk health conditions. Her and her crony then made assumptions about other colleagues (younger and of a different race and culture) and then denied this completely especially when the George Floyd case broke, one of them then couldn’t stop banging on loudly about BLM and what she’d read, done and seen (she knew it made her look good).

I've always been quiet and people always comment negatively on it.
I do believe the louder extroverts seem to have it easier and ge ahead in life but being quieter is appealing to a lot of people. Let your daughter know she is wonderful as she is and that she doesn't need to change x

I feel this.

My 8 year old is at a holiday camp in a farm. Her dream in life is to hold a snake.
I told the supervisor this.
Today they visited the reptiles. They asked who wanted to hold the snake. 5 put thier hands up, but there was only time for 4. The children who shouted and jumped out their seats got a chance. The one who quietly and politely lifted her hand while hoping with all her soul to be chosen was not.

I feel bad for her. We discussed being more assertive but it is not something that comes naturally to her.

It takes a gifted teacher/supervisor to see the quiet children on the sidelines. I really really value the ones that do!

It's frustrating in the extreme and I personally feel for those DC who don't get a go. Having experience of coming out the other side, it isn't because they are "not popular". Often the contrary. It's that it makes for an easier life to not prioritise them over others who'll make more of a fuss, if you are managing that situation.

Being assertive does not come naturally to me. I am also a quiet person... though this does mean that when I do talk, people listen.
My daughters are both opposites of each other. Eldest is both loud and assertive, youngest is timid and quiet. As children it benefitted my eldest, as adults it is my youngest who, like myself, gets heard

Which is absolutely fine to say.

But your earlier posts sounded very much like you were slagging off and tarring all confident extrovert kids with the same nasty brush.

A bit like saying all introverted kids who were overlooked, grow up to be seething revengeful serial killers.

Hi everyone I've just been reading through all the posts, there is some lovely helpful responses thank you all ❤️ it's helped me look at things from other angles/ perspectives which is so helpful.
I'm not worried about DD not being the loudest person but I do want her to be heard and have the confidence to speak up when she needs to.

To answer the sports day question, I and another mum filmed this race and when we watched it back we could see DD came 3rd by about 2/3 steps so very close but we could see it.
Totally appreciate the poor teacher stood at the finish line had 6 kids hurtling towards her and had to try and keep an eye on everyone.
I didn't want to March over with my evidence as poor DD would have died of embarrassment (as much as I wanted to!) so put her feelings on that part first even though there was some injustice. I told her next time to speak up and say if there is an issue.

Will definitely take on board the advise about speaking to her new teacher before the start of term (will try to catch them on the last parents evening of the year) to see if this makes a difference.

Also thank you to the poster who suggested a book - it's in my Amazon basket xx

The quiet ones may not get all the attention but can do extremely well. They are often very respected and appreciated by their teachers and peers. Many of them do well in their exams because they are good at listening.

The quiet ones may not get all the attention but can do extremely well. They are often very respected and appreciated by their teachers and peers. Many of them do well in their exams because they are good at listening.

Happens if the world of performing arts too. Not always the most talented kids given the solos and main parts. Not saying that those with the main parts and solos aren’t talented but sometimes it’s certain louder more persistent kids that get the part.

I have one these. However, she does gets her moments to shine . She's quite academic and active/sporty (and I always made sure she could take part in any competitions/sports she wanted to) so that's just as in your face as a loud kid.

Tbh, she doesn't care/can't be bothered about certain things (had similar happen at a sports day) and that's why she doesn't speak up. If she's actually upset, sometimes I do speak up for her to show her it's ok and how to do it and that it does work.

Does she ever get the best roles in a play? Does she fuck, but then again she's terrible at it and would/does hate it , so what would be the point?

At work my senior boss says that he is fed up of all the people (men) speaking constantly in meetings, needing to be heard. But when I speak, he listens as he knows it will be of value. There is a place for us quieter ones!

Not just children, but loud adults too.
I actually find it really frustrating - the amount of people I know who don't stand up for themselves, are in jobs that make them miserable and unhappy relationships mostly because they just go along with things and don't want to rock the boat.
I think we should all be loud kids sometimes....

Maybe but I still wouldn’t want to be like them nor would I want my dc to, so we are just ourselves. If something is unjust, I handle it in my own, considered way as would dc.

Well that loud child could well be my autistic DD. Sports day is always a stressful and traumatic time for her and we haven't got through one yet without a lot of tears. I would never endorse her being given a medal in place of someone who actually won it. But I can see how teachers might want to give it to her to save a massive meltdown. Similarly, star of the week was always been a major issue. She could manage a few weeks not getting picked but then would have a meltdown every week. I always used to think, if I was the teacher, I would be constantly trying to find something I could give her star of the week for just to get it done with. And she would usually get it the first term.
Flip to her sister, she is quieter and very easy going. She is usually one of the last to get star of the week and she doesn't care at all. When she gets it, she doesn't usually know what it's for. Sports day. She's happy to get a medal, but doesn't care if she doesn't.

Nobody's expecting trained timekeepers, that wasn't my point. It's about teaching DC not to be a doormat. Mistakes are made from time to time, but you need to be confident to speak up rather than miss out. If you don't feel able to at the time for whatever reason, it should still be raised later on so it can be rectified. At this stage it's only a sports day race and missing out on a sticker, but in the future it could be a colleague taking credit for your work with the knock on effect of missing bonuses or promotions.
Telling them it doesn't matter is dismissing their understandable feelings of injustice. It might be inconsequential to you, but a primary-aged DC's world is smaller and it is important to them.

I’m not an extrovert but I would 100% be confident enough to destroy the teacher / school etc if they treated my child like this. You need to protect your own and the best way to demonstrate assertiveness is to have your child’s back even if they would rather have an easy life