Loud kids always come out on top

[23Elfie]

Might be about to get flamed but here goes...

Is it me or do the louder kids always come out on top? And those that are the quieter, don't make a fuss kinda kids just get swept to the side?

Feeling like this about my DD, she's not overly confident but really tries her best and never throws a strop or complains if something doesn't go her way (to the teacher/coach/person in charge) just takes it on the chin and then gets upset at home.

Watched her today get totally mugged off at sports day, definitely came 3rd in a race although the 4th place person was very close, 4th place kid is a loud, bossy child who seems to always get their way and was awarded 3rd place to avoid a kick off I think.

That's just one example though - loud bossy kids who kick off if they don't get their way, always get the main parts in plays etc - quiet kids given the best parts.

Seems like the quiet kids get over looked constantly and I wish DD would speak up - but is it too much to ask for the quiet kids to get noticed without having to make a total show of everything they do?

Feel really deflated for DD on her behalf and don't know what else we can do to up her confidence to speak up a bit. She does a couple of sports clubs but it's the same there too, she joins in and plays well but there's always the golden kids in everything.

She has a group of friends but is never the 'leader' or if she has an idea the others don't seem to listen much - what can I do to get her to assert herself a little bit? I encourage as much as I can to speak up but not sure what else I can do?

I don't disagree with you 😂!

But it does prove the OP's point. Those that ask/demand often get.

It’s not always that quieter people are afraid of something. Sometimes they can’t get a word in, sometimes they are people who would tend to listen over speak, they might not feel the need to incessantly talk, but sometimes they are shy, under confident, self conscious, or maybe anxious because of past experiences.

I would tend to be quiet in some settings (family) because there are lots of big overbearing characters and I don’t feel the need to compete with them.

My parents had one loud, assertive, bossy, confident child (sibling) and one meek, shy, introspective, sensitive child with low self-esteem (me).

Shockingly(!), sibling dominated the entire household, got what she wanted when she wanted it, was physically violent and verbally abusive, and has been really successful in life. I've been plagued by MH problems for my entire life, and am perpetually single and struggling.

There are probably countries where I'd have done better, but the UK ain't one of them.

YANBU.

It’s the way of the world unfortunately. I really dislike extroverts though & much prefer a quiet, thoughtful child or adult who actually listens to others and doesn’t make everything about them.

I think if you repeatedly see outspoken people come out on top then, rather than simply denigrate these characteristics as “demanding” and “loud” etc because you don’t think you have them, perhaps reflect on what it is about those characteristics which others see as valuable. Who would you rather work with or be friends with? Somebody who passively stood back and allowed something unjust to happen to themselves or another because they didn’t want to speak up? Or somebody who correctly said “hey! That’s not right, what’s happened here isn’t a fair outcome”? The person who asks for what is rightfully theirs? Or the person who keeps their mouth shut and goes home in tears? Young children pick up on social behaviours like this among their peers and it influences how they relate to others, who they gravitate towards. We all want the person who will have our back, not the person happy to be walked over and let others be walked over so as not to “cause a fuss.” Most of us want to work with and be around people we feel we can rely on to be assertive, straightforward, and capable of speaking out rather than those who are passive, mince their words and who we are never quite sure where we stand with because they rarely say what they mean.

And as lots of posters have said, you can be assertive and confident and outspoken and it doesn’t mean you’re not also thoughtful and good at listening, or that you’re bossy or noisy or a bitch, which is a terrible correlation to imply to girls and young women particularly.

As a shy quiet child I was afraid of the bombastic kids picking on what I said, and how I said it. Obviously now I realise they were bullies but to an eight year old they were the popular kids who ruled the roost.

This is totally true. I was a very quiet, respectful child and my reports all had comments like ‘a model pupil’.

Dd who was exactly the same as me at school got comments like ‘needs to speak up’.

Unfortunately 'the squeaky wheel always gets the oil' and this happens throughout life not just in childhood.

It's perfectly possible to be respectful, thoughtful and speak up for yourself. God forbid, sometimes even extroverts are emotionally intelligent and perceptive.

If it is inherent it is so much easier. My mum said I was a content happy child, inner confidence. Both my ds's are the same. It certainly makes life easier. Ds1 is more difficult than ds2, but they are both easy. I don't think it can be taught. But to instill them not to be a pushover, is your parental duty. You must try at least, to give them balance. We all must strive to give our dc that, to smooth out their rough edges - whatever that may be. That's our job.

Confident extroverts do better in life
in no way is that the same as loud or rude or disruptive!

I understand how you feel - I have one of each - my son is super quiet, very very shy, and loves to be in the background. My daughter is front and center - loves an audience, she doesn’t do it for the attention - she’s just such an extrovert. I’m school - Everyone knows her, and knows what she’s like, often remarking how different they are - I’m pleased, I don’t know if I can cope with two of her 😂😂.

My tip would be try not to use the word 'bossy' around her, particularly when you're talking about certain girls.

'Bossy' is a negative word and one that's rarely applied to boys, who are generally called 'confident leaders' or similar rather than 'bossy'.

I'm sure she'll find her way in senior school OP. My middle DC was pretty quiet and shy in primary but in senior school he joined the debate club and the drama club and came on in leaps and bounds.

He's 24 now and still comes across as fairly quiet but he can be very assertive if he needs to be, and he's very comfortable with it.

Totally agree. Check yourself wherever you want to use the word 'bossy' about a girl.

This happens a lot in school. You can help by role modelling how to politely challenge poor decisions made by school (3rd 4th place). Advocate on your DDs behalf and let her observe you doing it.

Long term she will do well I’m sure, she just needs the right environment to shine and it’s often not schools. Schools often let children down.

The world is designed for extroverts. They say that 25-40% are introverts. I doubt 60% are extroverts. Some are probably Ambiverts or omniverts. I'm the later. You need to explain this to your dc to find out how to help them fit in best.

I have a very quiet and shy and small child. But in primary school he was surprisingly good when he had a speaking part in an assembly or church service - the shocked faces of other teachers when this loud, confident voice came out were always funny. At the first parents evening of each school year I always used to mention it to his new teacher, and they’d usually then give him the opportunity.

At secondary school you can’t push for them. But I was pleasantly surprised at his year 7 parents evening that the teachers did actually know who he was and also they all talked about strategies to encourage the quieter children to speak up. If I was considering different secondary schools it’s definitely something I would have asked about.

I can tell you with absolute certainty that in my class at least, the loud children DO NOT get away with that sort of behaviour! As an introvert myself, I advocate for my quieter (and also my less resilient) children, and give them their space and place in my class. I allow them to be both seen and heard in a way that suits their learning style and personality. And I would NEVER allow an overbearing child to ride roughshod over any other child!

I'm very aware that this is not always the case though in all classrooms, and for that I'm very sorry.

It's vitally important that parents of quieter (or less resilient) children, arm them with the skills to navigate a world that is, unfortunately, not set up to accommodate us introverted types.

I'm a teacher and an introvert. I love the quieter kids and definitely don't overlook them. Couldn't the sports day just have been a mistake? It's a busy day and I expect I've made mistakes in the past. Do t see slights where none were intended or your kid will start to feel like a victim.

YANBU

I was a quiet kid and I totally agree. This was my experience too. I think it carries on through life, to a degree.

I feel this way about DS5.
As an example will sit quietly and sensibly at the front of a stage and the entertainer will pick every child around him throwing up their arms and yelling to participate or win a prize etc and it breaks my heart to watch.

He struggles with confidence and it’s a huge deal for him to join in with say a dance competition and then when he does it’s like they look straight through him.

At a recent Parkdean holiday the same cute kid with pigtails, a pretty dress and a loud voice got picked 3 nights in a row as the winner of a competition 😏

Absolutely agree with this and it bothers me as both my children are well behaved at school, wouldn't make a fuss and generally try hard and do what they're told but I feel they get overlooked every time really. Same for their clubs. It's such a shame as I'm quiet and still feel it as an adult. People are always drawn to loud confident ones.

This is why MPs are loud thoughtless idiots who just jeer at each other and are incapable of rational debate. Society favours the loud, stubborn and unbending

I don't think one person on here has said they dislike introverts.

Extroverts might be annoying but what you wrote is actively unpleasant about a character trait which is hard-wired.

Good post.

<a class="break-all" href="https://www.google.com/url?sa=t&source=web&rct=j&url=en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hanlon%2527s_razor&ved=2ahUKEwjQovS-1eb_AhXMEcAKHSvICdwQFnoECAsQAQ&usg=AOvVaw1qCZrLreS407wIoAom3WEf" rel="nofollow" target="_blank">Hanlon's razor
Hanlon's razor is an adage or rule of thumb that states, "Never attribute to malice that which is adequately explained by incompetence"

They almost certainly just made a mistake.