Loud kids always come out on top

[23Elfie]

Might be about to get flamed but here goes...

Is it me or do the louder kids always come out on top? And those that are the quieter, don't make a fuss kinda kids just get swept to the side?

Feeling like this about my DD, she's not overly confident but really tries her best and never throws a strop or complains if something doesn't go her way (to the teacher/coach/person in charge) just takes it on the chin and then gets upset at home.

Watched her today get totally mugged off at sports day, definitely came 3rd in a race although the 4th place person was very close, 4th place kid is a loud, bossy child who seems to always get their way and was awarded 3rd place to avoid a kick off I think.

That's just one example though - loud bossy kids who kick off if they don't get their way, always get the main parts in plays etc - quiet kids given the best parts.

Seems like the quiet kids get over looked constantly and I wish DD would speak up - but is it too much to ask for the quiet kids to get noticed without having to make a total show of everything they do?

Feel really deflated for DD on her behalf and don't know what else we can do to up her confidence to speak up a bit. She does a couple of sports clubs but it's the same there too, she joins in and plays well but there's always the golden kids in everything.

She has a group of friends but is never the 'leader' or if she has an idea the others don't seem to listen much - what can I do to get her to assert herself a little bit? I encourage as much as I can to speak up but not sure what else I can do?

I agree and was very aware of this when I was teaching. I went out of my way to notice children like this

This is a great book about introverts https://uk.bookshop.org/p/books/quiet-the-power-of-introverts-in-a-world-that-can-t-stop-talking-susan-cain/523028

Of course people who speak up for themselves are going to be noticed more- that's always been the case and always will be.

You're not going to be picked for the lead role in a play when you are a quiet, timid mouse if the role requires confidence and presence. I never understand why parents of shy children expect them to be given the best parts.

As a very chatty extravert, I have never understood the quiet and shy people. I always think "what are you actually afraid of - what's the worst that can happen if you speak up?

@XelaM for the millionth time. Extrovert/ introvert has absolutely nothing to do with being confident or shy. I am a very confident and assertive introvert. I can’t bear ‘chatting’ to strangers, I’m not afraid of it in any way, it just intensely bores me and tires me out.

This actually makes me feel better about both my children and myself. Always overlooked because of the fear of confrontation. The introverted, quiet children are respectable and that is something to be celebrated. 💕

I have had this exact conversation with my dd today. She came home crying over sports day activity choices. An extrovert pipped her to the activity she wanted to do and she didn't dare speak up and say she had no activity whilst this other kids was on her 2nd. It's just unfair for them. But I have been trying to convince her lately that she has to speak up or this will happen more and more.

Did you complain at the time?

Wow I could have written this exact post myself about my DD but she is only in reception. She is so lovely but she is shy and quiet and will just accept her fate rather than fight. Already everything at school is about the loud kids and in particular the “cute” loud kids. I really wish I knew how I could help her be more assertive and I’m worried she will always be overlooked. Her best friend at school is the very cute loud one and bosses her about constantly. She is always being cuddled by the older kids, invited everywhere, had the main part in the Christmas play, has the main part in their summer show … my daughter never says anything but quietly gets upset at home that she isn’t. I have been encouraging her to branch out and play with other kids but she finds it so hard! 💔

The thing I’ve learned about confidence is that it comes through working at things and becoming good at them. For example, you can’t be a confident speaker if you have a poor vocabulary and can’t string a sentence together.

I can’t say that I’ve noticed louder adults getting ahead in life. I tend to avoid them. My exH is quite loud, and a manager in tech…the team of introverted engineers do all the difficult work and he annoys them (or so I’ve been told).

I don't think it's so much about being loud or bossy or willing to kick off, it's about confidence.
I run theatre classes and, I can tell you the gobby ones are rarely the best on stage (and probably annoy their teachers a bit too if they are like it all the time, which wouldn't tend towards favouritism.) The quietly confident ones who work hard (go home and run their lines/lyrics/steps in our case) they're the ones to watch, the ones that are going to go far. You don't have to be loud and balshy, but you do have to learn to raise your hand or your voice and say I want to "audition" or try out/apply for whatever it is.

Be glad your daughter is not an arrogant arse, those are not likeable qualities. In an exam being loud doesn’t help at all, being clever does.

The loud ones do get noticed more, are often the most critical too but I've found recently that although they get all the attention they're not necessarily respected and their opinions generally not shared by those in charge so they're placated by being heard and are too self centred to realise it's just that. Placation not respect

True, but being confident and sociable will help in all other aspects of her life.

My DS is quiet and stands back to let others go first. He can be waiting a long time for his turn and I used to feel frustrated just watching him sometimes when he was Primary school age. He’s not remotely competitive and genuinely doesn’t care if someone else is more extrovert.

However, he’s at secondary school now and I think he is slowly learning to be more assertive and stand up for himself, if it’s something that he’s bothered about.

@23Elfie Yes, I can see why you chose not to say anything after the sports race. However, as a more extrovert character, I think I would have said something and have done in the past. I have explained about the differences between being assertive and being agressive to my DS and I hope this has helped my DS to stand up for himself more. His dad is naturally more of an introvert as I’m the one who makes friends more easily, but he can be calmly assertive too when the occasion arises.

Hopefully, we’re modelling how to manage difficult people and situations effectively (and in different ways) and that DS will eventually learn and benefit from this.

The introverted, quiet children are respectable and that is something to be celebrated

this thread is weirdly now people just trying to assert that their non-confident children are more superior. They’re not. We all have different qualities

An extrovert pipped her to the activity she wanted to do and she didn't dare speak up and say she had no activity whilst this other kids was on her 2nd. It's just unfair for them

hey everyone. For those who didn’t listen the first time…..

Being confident and speaking out is nothing to do with extroversion. You can be a very self confident and assertive introvert.

A child asking to do an activity and your child being too afraid to speak up is not introversion. It’s a complete lack of self confidence.

You are definitely not being unreasonable. My kids are moving on to high school now but many times throughout their Primary school experience I have witness what you are talking about. It definitely does seem that louder, less well behaved children are often given what they want just to stop a tantrum. My son was on a school trip and had taken a packed lunch from home, a kid in his class who is known to be a bit boisterous at best demanded the snack my son had and a teacher actually talked my son in to giving it to this kid, most likely so they wouldn't have to deal with his meltdown whilst outside of school. Have also witnessed similar incidents at sports days. Why do the quiet, more reserved kids always have to make way for the ones who shout loudest? What are schools teaching all of our kids? Kick off to get what you want? Totally agree with you and I would speak to the teacher and let them know that both you and your child were unhappy with the sports day carry on. Your child won 3rd place and was denied the recognition for that because another child shouted louder. Show your kid that you have their back even if the school don't.

At our school its not so much the gobby kids, as the kids of the gobby adults who get everything. Although of course they are often one and the same.

This. Assertiveness can be taught.
*
I find the digs about extroversion nasty, TBH. (Not you OP.) Extroverts can't help is any more than introverts. If you can't make yourself extroverted, we can't make ourselves introverted.*

This!
I find there is this particular internet culture that pushes the idea that introverts are somehow superior to extroverts- somehow more thoughtful, humble, considerate. Whereas extrovert = loud, boastful and obnoxious.

It's become almost fashionable to say you're an introvert IMO.

It's rubbish - neither personality-type is "better" than the other.

I also take issue with the idea that's there's this strict binary, almost like two camps, when I think most people are more in the middle.

I say this as an introvert myself - but one who has quite often been mistaken for an extrovert or told (I'm also ND so think that that is probably why.).

I work in a school, the quiet kids most definitely don't get overlooked!

I have a different experience. My DS is one of the loud kids. He just gets told off a lot. To be fair to him he's not the type to kick off though.

I haven't read all the comments here, but wanted to chip in as I used to be the child who was always getting shoved aside or talked over, to the frustration and total incomprehension of my mother who always wanted me to learn to stick up for myself.

However, while I rarely used to stick up for myself as a child and was shy and clingy, I remained quietly steadfast in anything that really mattered to me and was completely immovable if I was being pressured into something I didn't want to do. I was quiet, but more or less impervious to peer-pressure. As an adult I hate the awkwardness of confrontation, but I will gladly fight tooth and nail if I feel that I'm being taken advantage of or treated unfairly. I have also found that, while the pushy people may succeed in some areas (particularly some industries), that sort of behaviour doesn't always get rewarded in adult life, nor are all adult extroverts guilty of constantly monopolising conversations. It is possible, as an introvert, to find one's niche in life, where one is respected and heard by the other people in tbe room. I recently finished my masters and went to the pub with the people on my course. I was pleasantly surprised to realise that every time I opened my mouth everyone at the table gave me the room to speak - not because they are all shrinking violets, buy because they are respectful people who want to hear what others have to say, without requiring that they shout it.

With regards to your daughter, by all means encourage her to find her voice and advocate for herself. Give her the opportunity to grow in confidence. But don't push her to be a shouter rather when she is a thinker. Praise the core values that you want to see in her, encourage her to fight for those values when necessary, but don't despair that she us quiet.

Agreed.

Dd1 is quiet and at primary school she was definitely overlooked a lot.
Despite her secondary school having 1400 kids, they seemed much better at noticing the quieter kids and appreciating their positives.

Remember the famous quote, 'The problem with the world is that the intelligent people are full of doubts and the stupid people are full of confidence'.

You are raising a lovely well mannered and decent human. Give me that any day over a loud brat!