Loud kids always come out on top

[23Elfie]

Might be about to get flamed but here goes...

Is it me or do the louder kids always come out on top? And those that are the quieter, don't make a fuss kinda kids just get swept to the side?

Feeling like this about my DD, she's not overly confident but really tries her best and never throws a strop or complains if something doesn't go her way (to the teacher/coach/person in charge) just takes it on the chin and then gets upset at home.

Watched her today get totally mugged off at sports day, definitely came 3rd in a race although the 4th place person was very close, 4th place kid is a loud, bossy child who seems to always get their way and was awarded 3rd place to avoid a kick off I think.

That's just one example though - loud bossy kids who kick off if they don't get their way, always get the main parts in plays etc - quiet kids given the best parts.

Seems like the quiet kids get over looked constantly and I wish DD would speak up - but is it too much to ask for the quiet kids to get noticed without having to make a total show of everything they do?

Feel really deflated for DD on her behalf and don't know what else we can do to up her confidence to speak up a bit. She does a couple of sports clubs but it's the same there too, she joins in and plays well but there's always the golden kids in everything.

She has a group of friends but is never the 'leader' or if she has an idea the others don't seem to listen much - what can I do to get her to assert herself a little bit? I encourage as much as I can to speak up but not sure what else I can do?

"Destroy" them? What hyperbolic nonsense.

Yes, sadly I see this with my little one, its heartbreaking

MrsTerryPratchett Well you’re a star. Of course it matters to a child who is doing their best at sports day. Maybe we should all just stand back and let the loud mouths demand whatever they want. Have some sense.

The squeaky wheel gets the grease.

As a shy person, IDK either really. Though I think learned timidity is a thing. It's hard to be a confident woman when your DM isn't one.

Intense fear of being judged?

Plus, some kids learn that when they do speak up, they will not be listened to anyway. So in the end they stop doing so. Very sad.

Yes! Some of us have more of a filter. It only lets stuff through that, in our opinion, is really worth saying.

I didn't give two shits about sports day when I was at school and certainly didn't win anything. In my last job I remember a few of my colleagues complained the boss hadn't given them a pay rise. I was surprised because when I asked for a pay rise I always got one! What's the worst that can happen? - the boss will say no? It didn't occur to any of them to ask.
Sadly women are indoctrinated from a young age to hold themselves back and put others first. When women assert themselves, what they want, what they will or will not tolerate, they are called 'bossy', 'obnoxious', 'aggressive', 'bitch', 'ice queen' etc. I've heard them all. If kids are quiet and uninterested in something like sports day that's reasonable because it's boring and shit. Learning to stand up for yourself and your beliefs however is vital because there's no guarantee someone else will.

I agree with this, but you can be quiet and confident. I also agree it's the same with adults, and the ones that are just loud with no substance generally aren't well liked or respected. I say this as a loud person (I'm a nice loud person 😁)

Yes precisely - I think it's the inference that 'quiet' is 'better' - still waters run deep and all that. But quiet can just as easily indicate the lights are on but no one's home 😂 and 'loud' doesn't automatically mean 'bully'. Stereotypes applied to kids which they end up embracing as an unchangeable part of their personality. The fact is the capitalist nature of the society we live rewards some behaviours more than others. It would be better to teach this to kids, and that life is unfair, it's not 'loud' people deliberately holding back the 'quiet' ones

The teachers should make an effort to give quieter kids a chance. However, later in life she will continue to get overlooked if she doesn't learn to be more assertive; it's just the way humans (and most animals) are.

I don't think it's "loud" . I think it's confidence. From 5yo one of mine just loved public speaking. It's innate. That has served him well. A couple of years off becoming a barrister. That is not a job for the faint-hearted. Everyone has different skills. He would be a useless librarian - you can hear his voice from blocks away even when he is talking at a normal level.

Quiet, introverted kids can still be confident and assertive, my DD is all of those things. She doesn't make a fuss, never shouts, but doesn't let anyone push her around.

You don't have to be loud to get what you want out of life, and being quiet and restrained does not have mean not assertive.

You've obviously never been a librarian 😂😂😂 it's a public space with sofas so all kinds of wronguns come in there. In south London the libraries have security guards

That is appalling, There is a way to make yourself heard without being 'loud' and I am teaching my child this, and this dramatic 'well you have to destroy people that is great way to be' show absolutely no intelligence whatsoever.

YANBU. I have always felt this way. The loud, boisterous children in my family seem to always get recognised before others do. Usually a level of complacency about the quieter children.

I remember when I was 8 years old. Our school used to do an award at the end of the year for achievements and one pupil in each class got one with a speech in assembly about why they got one.
I was really determined to work hard to get it. I'd always done well at school but got my head down and worked very hard that year, I just really wanted this award.
There was a boy in my class who was typically a bit of a shit, always causing problems and being disruptive. He got a speech about how hard he had tried that year and got the award.
As an adult, I understand he may have had stuff going on that I didn't know about, but as a 8/9 year old that was a real kick in the teeth and showed me that bring quiet & working hard leaves you unrecognised, but being disruptive and getting sent out constantly, then managing not to do this for one month, is ok.

Yes also true of Sen kids. They all struggle but the quiet ones are left to struggle because they don't cause any trouble. In an ideal world there would be enough staff in schools to support all the children sufficiently

I think you're probably right because 'loud' does usually go hand in hand with confidence, not caring what other people think, being seen as fun, speaking up about something you're not happy about.

At work, it's seen as assertive, go-getting and charismatic.

Obviously quiet people can be all of these things too, but they don't wear such an obvious badge.

Not necessarily learned from a parent as I have a very assertive and extrovert mum and I was often embarrassed by her assertiveness as a child. She would have definitely made a fuss on my behalf had that happened to me at sports day and I would have been mortified. I knew she got a lot of people’s backs up. As a result I think I probably went the other way and I am a bit of a pushover and I’m quiet because if in speak up I then get really worried that I’ve overstepped and people are thinking badly of me.

Have you thought about Drama classes?
Not quite the same thing, I know, but I wanted my child to be more confident and to be comfortable presenting (in a work setting) in later life (I get so nervous).
I don't think she'll go into an office setting now! But I still think they were really useful. They are not just about learning lines and performing, in fact far from it.

Clareanscombe1964
Another perspective here, she is developing some really important skills. Listening, taking things in. These skills can be hugely important later in life, yes you can say the louder kids win in the first instance. But not
necessarily in the long run. Her ability to sit back and take it all in - those are some of the most successful people I’ve seen. And with time, when she’s a bit older and knows how
to use her voice more, well then it’s winning combo!!

This is excellent advice. Your daughter should build on her inner strength and confidence, and those listening, observing and digesting skills and bide her time.

I actually disagree, in the workplace the quiet non-argumentative ones seem to get the promotions and more loud bolshy ones like me get overlooked! I say bolshy, really it's sticking up for myself and others, just don't always "play the game", it's happened NUMEROUS times. Or it could be unconscious racism, there is that!

@piesforever my experience of the loud bolshy colleagues is that they are in fact the ones playing the game, but I guess we could have different ideas about what the game is. In my experience, the loud people tend to be the most political, more combative and less collaborative. That's my interpretation of playing the game.

@TeamSleep im sure so many of us have led our lives thinking what we should be rather than valuing who we are and working with our skills. The post made me think of this article and thought you might like it too given your response 😊https://medium.com/the-ascent/quiet-people-in-meetings-are-incredible-7bb05ef9acd1

Is it me or do the louder kids always come out on top? And those that are the quieter, don't make a fuss kinda kids just get swept to the side?*

Rubbish. My calm, even tempered , modest kids were socially popular and excelled academically.

Your DC sounds perfectly normal. She participates, she has interests and friends.

Why don't you stop pressuring her to speak up , assert herself, be a leader/winner. Accept and love her for who she is. That will instill in her, genuine self esteem.

The people are happy in life and do well, are the ones who are happy in their skin. Can take life in their stride and ride the wave because their parents did NOT send a message " You're a disappointment, not good enough, you need to do better".