If you are a "working mum" or a "career mum", would you make the same decision again?

[SchoolFairNostalgia]

This is inspired by another thread (but not a TAAT) about how many women end up "doing it all" in the process of trying to "have it all".

I'm a mum with a career. Busted a gut to train with babies and toddlers, and am now the main breadwinner in our house and work more hours than my DH (and earn the large majority of our income). Very lucky to have a great husband - truly one of the good'uns, and a fantastic dad to the DC. However, I still think a disproportionate amount of mental/household/family load falls on me, inevitably, as the woman. Of course there are exceptions, but on average, I reckon it's pretty indisputable(?) that this happens in our society, for mums who work for money outside the home as much or more than their husbands/partners do.

My question: is it still worth it?
If I'm honest, I might have tried to work out something different, if I had my time again - something with more traditional sex/gender roles.

So, for other "working/career mums":

YABU - no, I would totally go for a career/job/breadwinner status again

YANBU - yeah, given my time again, I'd not focus so much on career (and look for alternative like try to get DH to earn more/train, etc.??)

I would make the same choices again, the only difference is that I wouldn’t:

1. give any airtime to all the people (other women) judging my choices
2. be apologetic for enjoying my work
3. have the doubts that I was doing the right thing for my fa,ily (I was and I still am)

@fireflyloo what do you do, if you don’t mind me asking?

I hate being a working mum. I must add since changing jobs last year I don't hate my job but I hate not being at home with my son.
If I could do it again I'd be a SAHM. I'm struggling because two of our children have SEN which makes life more difficult.
DH is pretty good with the kids, especially DS. He remembers appointment, takes them to clubs, sorts out birthdays for his side of the family but is useless with housework or shopping.
Mental load has become more even since I went back to work full time last year and just told DH I can not do it all.
But if I could I would be a SAHM until at least they all started school.

I think this choice is always framed the wrong way - it should really be would you have had children with someone if you knew they wouldn't be an equal partner.

I actually do think at the beginning there is a physical need for mothers to be with their babies in most cases: at the very start, tiny babies only really form one secure bond. But this changes as they get older, however a lot of couples don't seem to adapt. I took 9 months of mat leave then DH took two months both times. He supported me getting back to work, he bonded with them, he was the one who settled them into nursery which makes them marginally less likely to only ring me. And it meant we avoided the situation where I had been doing everything baby related and kept on doing so when I went back to work. I couldn't recommend it more.

In general, I do 90% of the mental load. He does 90% of the housework. It balances - he probably does 60/40 of the overall 'work' but it is hard to quantify: he has never bought either child a single item of clothing but he is the one who does all the cooking and cleans the kitchen etc etc about 28 nights/30 a month. He is the higher earner, not by a huge amount though.

I would say the majority of couples I know where both are working full time try for equality but interestingly I'd say the closer they get to it is probably directly correlated to how close to each other they earn. I think the absolute worst of all worlds is 4 days a week, followed by any kind of part time work. It doesn't lessen the work stress all that much creates more housework than extra time to do it yet seems to place all domestic responsibility on women.

I would be a horrific SAHM, so I have no regrets: I would feel stressed and trapped and overwhelmed. But if I had a crappy husband I would also struggle. While I'm totally aware nobody plans on having children with someone who will check out, I've known enough people to ignore plenty of red flags to think its something that should be discussed more.

Single mum working full time. For me this question is really ‘if I won the lottery would I keep working or become a sahm’

I would def be a sahm until my little one went to school. I absolutely hate it that he’s at nursery all week. It’s a great nursery and I’m thankful for the amazing care they take of Lo. But I won’t get this time with him again, and I feel I’m being robbed by the universe (or by an extremely backward political environment when it comes to families) of very important bonding time with my child in his young life.

I am so angry about it but I repress it and keep going. So many of us don’t have a choice.

Despite my amazing lottery winnings, though, I would find some meaningful work to do once LO was at school. I would probably revive my current career actually as I am doing what I want to be doing.

So basically, if I won the lottery I would take about 5 years out and then I would go back to my career. It’s important to me to have meaningful work and I do want to set that example to DO

Yes I would.

I was widowed 5 years ago, and because I'd already worked my way up to senior management by that point it meant I could afford to support my family so we were secure.

If I hadn't focused on my career in the earlier years I know I would have struggled to support my children alone.

The added stress of worrying where money would come from, and whether we would have to move house would have been so upsetting on top of an already devastating time. Having my career meant I could keep some stability for my children.

It was hard when they were babies as I was training, and felt like I survived on hardly any sleep. But we are extremely close now, and I would definitely do it all again for my children.

Maybe not the point of this thread, but I'd be gutted if anyone, especially my children, considered me a 'career mum' rather than just a mum. But no, if we had the financial freedom I would love to not have to work. If I had my time again I would choose a job that was less stressful and be the mum that I want to be able to be, rather than using up all my emotional energy on surviving at work (NHS).

The working fathers that through their upbringing have not been adequately educated in how to deal effectively with household needs and childcare can be guided through the process the same as they can learn any task at work

Some Working mums have become the first generation to guide their husbands through whatever part of the household or childcare work that their husbands had no prior experience in. Some men willingly embrace the emotional and practical tasks and some are reluctant and hang onto stereotypes to avoid equal responsibility.

It's 20ish years out of 80 plus.

My nest was empty at 55, so what? 30 years sitting in an empty nest?

No I'm still doing the work I really enjoy and have spare time and money and savings for the next 30 years. I can't imagine what life would be like if I had opted to be a household servant for a man and dependent on his financial whims.

Christ!

Nailed. It. 👏👏👏

I've done both, there is no easy path imo.

I had my kids in my late twenties having worked low level admin jobs from school, dropping down to part time after babies and not chasing big roles and responsibilities to be around my kids. As my youngest started school, I switched to FT. I now want the responsibilities and money and career and now in my 40s I'm doing masters level professional qualifications as well as working FT. This too is exhausting in a different way.

Why would you be gutted if anyone considered you a "career mum"?

If you’re accepting your partner’s offer to the table in your home, that he is incapable of taking on equal responsibilities for parenting and household responsibilities, you are conned. We are all capable of changing roles that have become comfortable to us, and parents are always learning to take on changing tasks and responsibilities.

This judged by other women thing? I don't remember experiencing that. How does it happen? I'm asking seriously?

Do you have friends that do this? Is that a social media thing? How do they know about your kid's vegetable habits? I used to tell a funny story about finding roasted parsnips behind a cupboard in the dining room. Did people go home and JUDGE me? I struggling to care, I thought it was funny.

It irks me no end that the phrase 'have it all' is never, ever used in relation to men. It's also as inaccurate as it's frustrating: doing exactly as you like isn't possible for anyone of either sex. But it's always used for those upstart women daring to stake a claim on what men have taken for granted since time immemorial: the expectation that they can have a family and simultaneously pursue a career.

When you think about it, this isn't asking a lot.

It's also not a given that the mental load inevitably falls to women. Why would you unquestioningly accept this? It's an important question that deserves consideration as it could - probably should - influence your choices.

The foundation of my marriage is the understanding that parenting is a two-person job, that running the house is split likewise, and that I'll be doing my full-time share of paid labour and contributing to the household equally in that respect too. For me, a relationship could work on no other basis, and I've been very clear on that understanding from the outset. Had DH and I been on a different pages about any of this we'd possibly have made different choices about our future much earlier on.

Whatever you decide, the key is to be really clear about your expectations and stick to them.

I’m a working mum and my husband is a working Dad -we are both working full time, and we have four children, now young adults- and yes, I would definitely do it all again!

We both work full time, and share equal responsibility for household and parenting tasks- it’s a no brainer for us , the same as it is for many. Yes, life is busy and crazy, and we have had some horrible experiences along the way, but we have each other’s backs, and our family is full of love and happiness

This judged by other women thing? I don't remember experiencing that. How does it happen? I'm asking seriously?

Then you are very lucky.

It doesn't happen in all situations - I don't think anyone I work with does. (Then again, they are working parents like me, so why would they?)

But there's definitely the 'school gate' judging, finding it inexplicable you can't make the cake sale, running from 12 - 3 for example.

That said, it's not quite judging either. It's the inability to recognise that others live different lives, make different choices - or have to make those decisions, with limited choices.

Why would you be gutted if anyone considered you a "career mum"?

Well in my case, I'd be gutted as it's not a thing. 'Career mum', 'career woman' is like terminology from the 70s.

There's no 'career dad' or 'career man', is there?

I'm a mother. I have a job. Other women are mothers and don't have jobs. All ok, none requiring prefixes.

I know very few SAHM who don't also have something else for example teaching music a few hrs a week as being a classical pianist doesn't work with family life etc. But the ones I know who don't have anything on the side make it clear to be that that option is rarely good for women in the long term.

@EarringsandLipstick you are right about that , as women, the same as men, do become stuck in set ways of thinking and don’t like to see others operating differently. It can be hard to be on the receiving end , but I think that the best way to deal with this situation is to do exactly what you’re doing, just keep going and be glad that you’re not them! They are at fault through their incapacity to accept the endless assortment of different women and families operating happily around them in different ways

Ah, okay. My ex did the school run and so I expect he got a man pass although he did do quite a lot of stuff with cycling proficiency and non cake rela

I could be a SAHM if I wanted to but I couldn't imagine anything worse, to be honest. I love my career, I love the mental stimulation and I love the financial independence.

My husband and I share everything 50/50 and the mental load does not fall to me alone. I truly have it all and it's wonderful, I'm incredibly happy.

YABU career mum here and would absolutely do it again.

@SerafinasGoose

It irks me no end that the phrase 'have it all' is never, ever used in relation to men.

Its a bit of a derail but I also loathe this expression. Dripping with internalised misogyny, utterly spineless and meaningless. It's code for "Admit you can't handle it and quit while you're ahead." No, thanks.

As you rightly say, no one ever says that to men. More to the point, it just isn't true. Lots of us do have it all because we have to have it all. I don't say that in a smug "look at me, I've got it all" way. I say it because I don't have a bloody choice.