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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

That teachers should be held legally responsible for erroneously teaching children they can change sex?

216 replies

WandaWomblesaurus · 18/06/2023 01:18

https://www.tiktok.com/@urgalcrystall*/video/7245383841873923355?r=1&&t=8dEqrgzepeE&socialsharing=v5

Listening to this ridiculous teacher today bullying two students, isn't it time that we started holding teachers responsible for indoctrinating children into thinking they can identify as anything they feel like?

How did we get to this point where kids are so afraid to speak up because of being bullied by classmates or even by teachers?

YABU - I identify as a cat
YANBU - teachers should face the legal consequences for encouraging children to identify out of their biological sex.

OP posts:
Thread gallery
6
TakeMe2Insanity · 18/06/2023 17:23

TooBigForMyBoots · 18/06/2023 02:02

The Tory Government should be held legally responsible for the trans shitshow that has captured our children and the damage done to young bodies and minds on their watch.Angry

👏👏

QuintanaRoo · 18/06/2023 17:26

Teacher may have been “repeating a script” she’s had drummed into her but that doesn’t mean she needs to bully those girls, tell them to go to another school, call them despicable and report them to a more senior teacher.

That bears the hallmark of someone who truly believes what they’re saying and wants to indoctrinate others.

so the two girls are getting reported and will have to write a statement as part of an investigation? What’s the betting at some point someone tells them they should just “be kind”.

Balloonhearts · 18/06/2023 17:27

Wow. That is one teacher I would not want teaching my children. She has well and truly vacated her trolley.

'It's fact.' Um no love it isn't. It's practically a cult at this point but one thing it isn't is factual.

Callyem · 18/06/2023 17:27

IncomingTraffic · 18/06/2023 17:21

Gender GP is not a source anyone should be going to for facts.

Great, enlighten me - what are the statistics for children who have been diagnosed with gender dysphoria, put on puberty blockers and wanting to detransition for reasons other than family/societal pressure?

Farmageddon · 18/06/2023 17:28

Madeintheshade · 18/06/2023 17:14

Of course men can’t change every aspect of their biological make up to those of a woman.

But they can identify as a woman? What’s wrong with that?

And we can recognise them as de facto women. It’s similar to adoption. An adopted child isn’t the biological relation of its parents, but we accept the ‘legal fallacy’ that it is their de facto real child.

These men can 'identify' as whatever they please, but we should not be forced to go along with it. And the fact that laws are being changed, language is being changed and policy is being changed to accommodate their feelings, over other people's reality is a problem.

Can you really not see why this would be a problem for many people? Like it's not actually possible for us to have a single sex space, if men can identify their way into it.

Also your comparison with adoption is a bit silly - how does parents adopting a child impact on other people? It really doesn't.

But allowing men to legally count as women absolutely affects other people. One of the biggest bullshit lies peddled in all this, is that it's just about trans people and nothing to do with anyone else - but that's not true. When women are forced to accept men in our spaces, forced to cede medals to men on the podium, forced to give up our places on all women shortlists to men - it absolutely does affect us. There are numerous examples of this being unfair and downright dangerous to women. Male rapists in women's prisons, men winning 'all women' cycling races.

This is not about how someone identifies, which is their business. This is about the fact that everyone else is being bullied into going along with their delusion, to our own detriment.

QuintanaRoo · 18/06/2023 17:28

And yes the girls probably will be in trouble for recording the conversation and posting it.

PriOn1 · 18/06/2023 17:29

FourTeaFallOut · 18/06/2023 13:34

I bet. Surely the unions could act to represent the concerns of teachers here? They are being asked to operate on a tightrope in a situation which is increasingly hostile without any guidance.

The unions are all captured. The levels of regulatory capture on this topic are alarming. It is being fought by grassroots groups from the ground up, but is taking forever because it is so embedded.

PriOn1 · 18/06/2023 17:34

Callyem · 18/06/2023 17:27

Great, enlighten me - what are the statistics for children who have been diagnosed with gender dysphoria, put on puberty blockers and wanting to detransition for reasons other than family/societal pressure?

Statistics for those diagnosed with gender identity disorder (previous terminology) who were not put on puberty blockers and not “affirmed” but treated with the watchful waiting protocol were well established. Between 80 and 90% of cases resolved when the children went through puberty.

So block puberty and (unsurprisingly) very few children recover from their dysphoria and a very high percentage go on to cross sex hormones, which will cause sterility.

Farmageddon · 18/06/2023 17:40

Callyem · 18/06/2023 17:27

Great, enlighten me - what are the statistics for children who have been diagnosed with gender dysphoria, put on puberty blockers and wanting to detransition for reasons other than family/societal pressure?

I'm sure you will just ignore whatever doesn't fit your agenda, but just for some light reading, here is an article outlining the main research showing that more than 80% of children desist.

https://www.transgendertrend.com/children-change-minds/

YouJustDoYou · 18/06/2023 17:47

To the poster who said "what's wrong with a man identifying as a woman?", women and girls have been RAPED by people allowing men and boys in to previous female-only places. That good enough of a reason for you?

YouJustDoYou · 18/06/2023 17:48

And yes, teachers should be held fully accountable for lying to children about biological facts to fit a cultist agenda.

Callyem · 18/06/2023 17:50

Farmageddon · 18/06/2023 17:40

I'm sure you will just ignore whatever doesn't fit your agenda, but just for some light reading, here is an article outlining the main research showing that more than 80% of children desist.

https://www.transgendertrend.com/children-change-minds/

No, I am genuinely interested in the correlation between those given blockers and not detransitioning.

What I am getting from that is, those who have not been given blockers tend to revert back to their birth gender and those who have, are far less likely to.

I would say that is a sign that only those who are the most emphatic in their gender dysphoria are actually given blockers, rather than the blockers somehow stop children from wanting to revert.

Madeintheshade · 18/06/2023 17:55

TiptoeThroughTheToadstools · 18/06/2023 17:19

@Madeintheshade IMHO no they can't identify as a woman, they are not and will never be. Its a large scale mental health crisis and neither me, or my children will be put at risk by predators that want to access private women's spaces.

You clearly don’t understand the meaning of identity, regardless of your stance on trans rights.

Madeintheshade · 18/06/2023 17:57

YouJustDoYou · 18/06/2023 17:47

To the poster who said "what's wrong with a man identifying as a woman?", women and girls have been RAPED by people allowing men and boys in to previous female-only places. That good enough of a reason for you?

An incredibly small number (if any) have.

nebulae · 18/06/2023 17:58

Madeintheshade · 18/06/2023 17:57

An incredibly small number (if any) have.

One is too many.

JustPassingThyme · 18/06/2023 18:02

Those girls should be commended not demonised for their astute recording of that teacher abusing them. Teachers are notorious for covering their own arses at the expense of the child. Many schools have CCTV in the hallways to monitor pupil’s behaviour outside of class, why is it wrong for pupils to have recording devices in the classrooms to monitor the teacher’s behaviour. If teachers aren’t doing anything wrong, then they have nothing to worry about.

Becoming a teacher doesn’t magically except a person from being cruel or from being a fool, like for example the teacher in the recording spouting utter nonsense, then threatening and bullying children. I cannot believe people are actually defending a child abuser.

In the UK we can record conversations we are part of without the other person’s consent or knowledge. I think any parent worried about their children being taught nonsense in school should send their children in with recording devices in their pockets. If a teacher isn’t doing anything wrong, then there is nothing to fear. If anything, it would improve the education the children are receiving, we all remember how different our teachers were when they were being observed and evaluated.

It’s about time teachers left the shelter of the school room and entered the real world and faced the court of public opinion, if not the actual court of law. I don’t recall anyone complaining about how unfair it was for the COO of Wickes to be exposed for his TWAW drivel.

Teachers, if a pupil in your school harshly verbally abused and threatened another pupil who had only spoken the truth, would the bully pupil face punishments? What is good for the goose is good for the gander. I wasn’t aware being a teacher was a characteristic protected by the Equality Act, oh wait, it isn’t.

It doesn’t take a genius to understand there are only two sexes and sex-based rights are important. It isn’t a radical belief, it’s a scientific fact that people can’t change their sex, and they certainly can’t change their species. Those two teenage girls understand that fact and provided their teacher with an eloquent explanation. If that teacher really believes her students can identify as pets, she should be preparing them for Crufts not GCSE’s.

How much guidance is needed for a teacher to understand it’s wrong to bully, gaslight, lie to, and abuse children? Teachers are adults that have at least some semblance of intelligence and social competence. They are perfectly capable of facing the consequences for actions and decisions they freely made. Teachers need to stop passing the blame on to other people, at the end of the day they are the ones abusing children in the classroom by indoctrinating them with this trans nonsense.

If you want to believe in non-scientific believes like there being 3 sexes and a 100 genders, then go and work at Wickes. They support people with bizarre beliefs, and you won’t be abusing children at work every day. They don’t require DBS checks, or an IQ over 100, and teachers can still play with paint all day.

This is how teachers get away with such appalling abuse of children such as transitioning children against parent’s wishes. Teachers always close ranks, protect each other and leave the vulnerable and/or victimised children to the wolves. Why is it ok for the girls to receive abuse online for sharing that recoding? They are children showing the public evidence that they were abused! Yet people are claiming is it wrong for that teacher to face consequences for abusing her students? She should be the one removed from the presence of all children, permanently.

That teacher having to delete her social media and put up with a month of slight discomfort (probably while on publicly funded paid leave) seems a light punishment for her crimes and a small price to pay to protect all the children in the country from being abused, gaslight and indoctrinated into the trans ideology.

She didn’t care about the class full of children she gaslit and taught utter nonsense. She didn’t care about the two girls whom she intended to have punished and their permanent records ruined because they exposed her idiocy and spoke the truth. So why should anyone care about her? Is it’s fine for her to dole out punishments, but not for her to receive them?

Those defending this tragically accurate and appalling example of a teacher reek of hypocrisy and guilt. I have no sympathy for her, or anyone like her.

PriOn1 · 18/06/2023 18:03

Callyem · 18/06/2023 17:50

No, I am genuinely interested in the correlation between those given blockers and not detransitioning.

What I am getting from that is, those who have not been given blockers tend to revert back to their birth gender and those who have, are far less likely to.

I would say that is a sign that only those who are the most emphatic in their gender dysphoria are actually given blockers, rather than the blockers somehow stop children from wanting to revert.

When do children desist?

When going through puberty.

What do puberty blockers do?

Block the process during which most children desist.

Can you see any potential problems there?

TiptoeThroughTheToadstools · 18/06/2023 18:04

@Madeintheshade feel free to think what you like, I do!

Farmageddon · 18/06/2023 18:04

Callyem · 18/06/2023 17:50

No, I am genuinely interested in the correlation between those given blockers and not detransitioning.

What I am getting from that is, those who have not been given blockers tend to revert back to their birth gender and those who have, are far less likely to.

I would say that is a sign that only those who are the most emphatic in their gender dysphoria are actually given blockers, rather than the blockers somehow stop children from wanting to revert.

Are you kidding me, doctors will give out puberty blockers to pretty much anyone. Thanks to 'affirmation only' policy.
And how do you know that those who are given puberty blockers are somehow 'more emphatic', you cannot possibly have that information. You are projecting to endorse your point of view.

The point is, children do not have the maturity to understand the long term consequences of many of these drugs, if an adult chooses to transition that is their decision. Children should be left alone.

cardibach · 18/06/2023 18:06

I can’t even watch the video. But no teacher I know is doing what you suggest.

AlisonDonut · 18/06/2023 18:11

Callyem · 18/06/2023 17:50

No, I am genuinely interested in the correlation between those given blockers and not detransitioning.

What I am getting from that is, those who have not been given blockers tend to revert back to their birth gender and those who have, are far less likely to.

I would say that is a sign that only those who are the most emphatic in their gender dysphoria are actually given blockers, rather than the blockers somehow stop children from wanting to revert.

Blockers?

The very same drugs they used to use to castrate paedophiles and homosexuals? Those puberty blockers which devastate a child's development? And which are being used off label to do so? Which are untested in this context and which have not been tracked properly by the clinics administering them?

AlisonDonut · 18/06/2023 18:12

Madeintheshade · 18/06/2023 17:57

An incredibly small number (if any) have.

How many raped women would there have to be exactly?

Madeintheshade · 18/06/2023 18:12

nebulae · 18/06/2023 17:58

One is too many.

No one would wish assault on anyone, but we accept “one isn’t too many” in many areas of life where we balance risk with rights and freedoms. You might not be conscious of it, but you, yourself likely accept many of these already.

For instance, the majority of assaults on women happen in domestic settings, with husbands/partners guilty of a huge number. We attempt to reduce this, but we don’t say men and women in a relationship shouldn’t live together because “one is too many”.

FourTeaFallOut · 18/06/2023 18:16

Men aren't women, they have no place in women's single sex spaces - regardless of how they identify. For privacy, dignity and safety.

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