That teachers should be held legally responsible for erroneously teaching children they can change sex?

[WandaWomblesaurus]

https://www.tiktok.com/@urgalcrystall*/video/7245383841873923355?r=1&&t=8dEqrgzepeE&socialsharing=v5

Listening to this ridiculous teacher today bullying two students, isn't it time that we started holding teachers responsible for indoctrinating children into thinking they can identify as anything they feel like?

How did we get to this point where kids are so afraid to speak up because of being bullied by classmates or even by teachers?

YABU - I identify as a cat
YANBU - teachers should face the legal consequences for encouraging children to identify out of their biological sex.

Yes. That is what it seems to boil down to.

It's a minefield for teachers on this issue. There is no official guidance that has been published. There are a lot of resources published by dubious organisations floating around online that schools are using in place of official guidelines and resources. PSHE is a subject that has no specialist teachers. There is no PGCE in PSHE. There is no training to teach PSHE. Teachers are just given a curriculum containing very challenging material and told to get on with it. So without guidance or training, what are teachers supposed to do other than teach what they've been told to?

This teacher does sound like she's repeating a script that's been drummed into her. There is a fear in schools around transgender issues. There are a lot of young people who have bought into gender woo and if they don't like a teacher and want to take them down, they have the power to accuse a teacher of being a transphobe and that would get that teacher in very hot water. I have had a couple of years out of teaching and am returning in September - as someone who doesn't believe transwomen are women and transmen are men, I'm very worried about how to balance my personal views with what I know will be the party line in school. I will refuse to teach children anything I believe is wrong - but if I refuse to teach this topic as instructed, will I get hauled in front of the Head and given a warning? Will I lose my job? Quite possibly.

It's all very 1984. The government urgently needs to act on this in terms of providing clear guidance and expectations, because schools and teachers are currently very vulnerable to individual agendas within their community. We need official guidance to protect everyone's interests.

I will also say that these girls were not wrong in standing up for their views, but they were very wrong for recording the teacher without her knowledge and posting the recording - with the teacher's name - on TikTok. We shouldn't be celebrating/encouraging this kind of behaviour. They have totally disrespected this teacher's privacy and I wouldn't be surprised if they were suspended or even expelled for it. There are better ways to challenge and raise questions about this issue than to behave illegally like this.

Does this mean I could identify as a dog and enter crufts? Think I’d be quite could on the agility course!

I specifically said that we do not teach sex or gender this way was that not clear?

They have totally disrespected this teacher's privacy and I wouldn't be surprised if they were suspended or even expelled for it. There are better ways to challenge and raise questions about this issue than to behave illegally like this

I grant that it’s not respectful behaviour, but I’m not sure it’s illegal is it? Also, it’s not really private when teaching a full class of kids.

I didn’t realise the teacher’s name had been made public. That is very serious indeed and could have dangerous consequences - I know one teacher in my school who cannot appear in any publicly available photos, videos etc because her violent ex would find her and the children.

In my school it would be a suspension - the same as if you take and then publicly post photos or videos of other children. Some people (particularly woman and children) are unsafe if their location is widely shared.

@EnidSpyton very interesting points.

At university all lectures are recorded. Maybe they should do the same in schools. For the benefit of the teachers and the pupils.

Sharing publicly is another thing though...

Covering this subject and saying completely abusive nonsense to children are two different things.

The teachers not having guidance isn't an excuse for abuse.

This is now fast becoming a safeguarding issue where teachers are affirming the mental illness and self harm of children.

I don't feel sorry at all for teachers who behave like this. They are teachers - they know what they are doing.

If a teacher affirms an autistic child who says they are a cat - that's abuse, plain and simple.

My whole staff room agrees with you. However, the teachers would all be risking our jobs if they’re told to teach it and refuse to. Luckily they haven’t been. Yet.

Re my above comment - I don't know if there was an actual student (autistic or not) who is identifying as a cat or the question was theoretical -
But we know from stats that autistic kids are more likely to be the victims of this gender woo.

If you were to assume that the incident has been accurately described - which could well be a leap then, yes.

But I can well imagine this was more complicated than stated. Perhaps there was both a transgender student in and another student claiming to have a sudden onset cat identity in the classroom which the children used to protest the gender woo by proxy.

Which would be a tricky situation and one that demanded that the teacher attempt to address the situation with the transgender student in mind. I think the teacher does sound genuinely upset at the outset. However that teacher then goes on to say a lot of stuff which is untrue, accuses the girls of being transphobic and then threatens their place in school.

I'm surprised by the number of posters here who are prepared to defend the whole thing, either because they believe that these kids should be told to accept the narrative because the earth is burning or because they feel teachers are hamstrung in these situations. But I'm struggling to believe how anyone could think that was a reasonable response in its entirety.

@WonderingWanda

But do you teach children that they can change their biological sex?

Perhaps this certain teacher is in the minority that actually agrees with the utter nonsense they are being made to peddle.

That aside, it does not alter the fact teachers MUST cover this whether they agree or not. The only options open to parents that strongly oppose is home ed which is becoming increasingly popular, or catholic school, at the moment these are the only two choices that guarantee non exposure to gender ideology education.

Why can't they identify as a cat?
Self id should be self id.

It won't offend cats. Cats don't have any specific rights in law, and don't have any protected characteristics.

These are probably long overdue, and cats would benefit from some specific legislation.

The cats won't be threatened by non cats in the cat shelters.

Calling cats 'cis' should be fine, unless it's mispronounced as 'hiss'. They get called all sorts. They don't seem to get offended, because their names are chosen for them.

Cats won't be upset by humans speaking on their behalf, and making choices for them. It's always been that way.

Then I read this again, and it's just like men making choices on behalf of women.........
Madness really.

In my school it would be a suspension - the same as if you take and then publicly post photos or videos of other children. Some people (particularly woman and children) are unsafe if their location is widely shared

Fair enough. Doesn’t sound like it’s illegal though as that poster said.

I have a lot of sympathy for teachers being asked to teach this kind of stuff, but this lady was very emphatic about it and spouting nonsense. It makes me think that she believes it.

This is now fast becoming a safeguarding issue where teachers are affirming the mental illness and self harm of children.

Up until the Cass report teachers were being told that affirmation was the correct approach, and that was the approach taken by the NHS. Teachers should be able to trust the flipping doctors, and it isn’t our fault they were wrong. (Yes, some of us always believed they were wrong and have been campaigning about it, but at work we have no right whatsoever to teach our personal opinion as fact or to present our views with equal weighting to the medical experts.)

I don't feel sorry at all for teachers who behave like this. They are teachers - they know what they are doing.

Don’t be daft, teachers simply cannot be experts in everything. This teacher stepped way over the line, of course. She is teaching anti-science (3 sexes ffs) which is plain wrong, and the way she speaks to the pupils is unacceptable. But to claim the average teacher understands the nuance in the debate around gender identity is ridiculous. And even if they do understand it, any approach to teaching it means taking a political stance in a classroom - which is wrong. Failure to teach it is not an option either, schools are legally required to teach gender identity. Teachers are being thrown under the bus on this.

If a teacher affirms an autistic child who says they are a cat - that's abuse, plain and simple.

This one I agree with. Tbh, if a child is serious that they are a cat and honestly believes it I’d be putting in a safeguarding referral.

I would be taking my cat in to school on Monday if I was the student.

Doesn’t sound like it’s illegal though as that poster said.

I don’t think so either, but I don’t know for sure. Plenty of illegal things only result in suspension in school (eg punching someone).

Please stop putting this stuff in AIBU or other areas of mumsnet. Its absolute poison. I can ignore the roiling cesspit that “feminism” has become but I can’t block all the other topics and still enjoy the site.

Can’t you just hide the thread?

Climate change is a genuine issue though. Can't bury our heads in the sand about it.

🤦‍♀️🤣

YANBU, OP. It’s thought police territory, very scary.

But I disagree strongly with this :

It won't offend cats. Cats don't have any specific rights in law, and don't have any protected characteristics

Cats are frequently offended, and it’s up to their owners to fawn over them until the misdemeanour is corrected

I believe it is illegal, yes, to record someone without their permission, and then post that recording online with identifying information. I am willing to be corrected if wrong.

And if you listen to the recording and read the explanation, this conversation happened after class. It was a private conversation between the teacher and the two pupils who she had asked to stay behind to discuss their behaviour during the lesson. It was not in the context of a lesson. Which still wouldn't be ok to record without the participants' permission anyway.

The teacher was not aware she was being recorded. She did not give her permission to be recorded. She did not give her permission to be named and have this recording of what she believed to be a private conversation posted online. Regardless of the issues being discussed, this is not acceptable and the girls will be punished for it - in my last school, this would have been expulsion worthy behaviour.

We have to remember we don't know the context of what is going on behind the scenes in this school. The teachers might have all been instructed to stick to the party line of self ID and TWAW and sex is changeable etc the teacher is advocating. We don't know what consequences there are for teachers who don't advocate this. We don't know whether there have been issues in this school with children self-ID-ing and pressure being put on the whole community to support this choice. We don't know what the parent community have been advocating for. There are a lot of unknowns. As I said in my previous post, it's an area with no official guidance and schools are being forced to make it up as they go along. Depending on the liberality of the school's leadership, each school is going to go down a different route on this issue because there are no other structures in place to guide them other than individual leaders' own moral stance on the topic. Personally I don't think it should be on the curriculum at all. There are no facts in the matter to teach. It is not the same as teaching them about sexuality. Transgender identities are rooted in complex psychological issues that have no place on the PSHE curriculum.