To not invite friend because of SEN child

[GameOverBoys]

I know I’m going to get roasted here so I will try to give all the information.
Myself and a few friends have been discussing getting a villa for a holiday next summer. There are 5 families all with children aged 6 to 13. We all went to uni together with another friend who has two boys. Her eldest (10 years old) is on the pathway and I feel fairly confident that he is neuro-diverse. Maybe autism or ADHD but has traits of both. So far, we haven’t invited her but now we are looking for villas we need to make a decision if we are going to or not. She is a lovely, sweet woman and we would have no question if it wasn’t for the impact on the group that her eldest has. He is not safe to be left unsupervised with the other kids. In the past there has been constant issues ranging from rough play, making threats and impulsive unsafe actions to punching and throwing things at the others.
He’s very bright, articulate and thoughtful boy and thrives on adult interaction. Away from other kids, I enjoy spending time with him a lot.
During play dates and get togethers we tend to take it in turns to supervise the kids and he is generally much better behaved when watched and any major danger can be stopped. It’s also easy to spot triggers like competitive games. He is also better when there are fewer kids. If we go to a villa (with a swimming pool) supervising him will be impossible and we want to have a break and just let the kids have a bit of freedom. The other children are all old enough and sensible enough to listen to instructions, such as you can’t go to the pool area.
His mother does her best but when she supervises him his behaviour is much worse for her. Her youngest is well behaved so I don’t feel it’s particularly bad parenting, just a stressed out single parent with few resources left to deal with a very hard to parent child. She also has a physical disability which can sometimes stop her being able to intervene. If he was my child I would take him for regular breaks, providing calming strategies, give clear boundaries and follow through but he isn’t and I can tell her how to parent.
I don’t think she realises how bad it is because this has always been her situation, but it’s constant. The group get on so well when he’s not there. There is no need to get involved, other than the occasional requests for food etc and it’s really relaxing. When he is there it is drama the entire time. I think he just doesn’t have the social skills to mix in a big group and he get’s overstimulated. However, I know my friend would be devastated if she thought they were being excluded.

YABU - You are being unreasonable to exclude someone because of SEN

YANBU - You are not being unreasonable to want a relaxing holiday and only invite who you want to

It’s so tricky because obviously YANBU to want a holiday where you feel relaxed.

BUT in all honestly a holiday with that many family sounds truly stressful and exhausting to me anyway!

The thing is, you can’t have what you want, which is a holiday all together that is lovely and relaxing without your friend being devastated that she’s not invited.

so I think your only option here realistically is to not do the big group holiday

YANBU but this will be devastating for her and I can’t imagine how she’ll feel being so excluded. I reckon that would be the end of the friendship.

That's so difficult. As the mum of a teenage son with ASD I'd be so hurt. On the other hand I do understand where you are coming from. I think excluding one friend from the holiday when everyone else is going is to very obvious to her why. I think I'd have to tell her before I booked it rather than her find out when you are posting photos on social media or all talking about it.

5 families is 10 adults plus your single parent friend - surely enough to keep an eye on them without it becoming a burden on any one of you?

If you want to maintain this friendship I think you’d have to invite her and hope she says no. Otherwise I’m not sure a friendship would survive this. It sounds like your friend could probably use the break the most of all.

You can’t leave one person in a group of friends out of a holiday and expect to stay friends with them. I understand it’s hard, I am in a similar situation. I would either all go and deal with it or not go with the group.

I don’t think yabu. To me what stood out was the safety issue when the child is around other children. I don’t think it’s fair for other children to be at risk because of one child regardless if there are SEN issues or not. Saying that, it isn’t fair to put a child with SEN issues in a situation they would struggle to cope with for a holiday and it isn’t fair to the other children either.

Well you've said her child is not suited to large groups of children, so I'm afraid it'd be a No from me but I'd try to explain why to her.
If he went with you all none of you gets a nice holiday.

It's hard but it is not beneficial to the others or him for that matter.

I definitely agree that she needs the holiday the most.

I think this is like the impossible situation. I realise we were excluded from things when my DS was younger. It did hurt my feelings. But on the other hand I can totally see other people’s points. There was a period of time (probably up until DS was 6/7) where if I’m being totally honest it just was not pleasant or enjoyable to spend time with or around him. I loved him as much as I do now but everything was a struggle. When I took my other kids to soft play, the park, days out, it was sitting and enjoying the weather while they played and pottered about with other kids. With DS it was running behind him constantly anticipating him hitting somebody/biting someone/throwing something. That was the reality of it. So of course I understood why we weren’t invited. His needs and his behaviours totally overshadowed everyone and everything else.

Is it possible to go to the same place without all staying together? So you all get a break from each other and can meet up in smaller groups too?

But she needs a holiday from her SEN child primarily?

I know this isn’t a nice thing to ask but could he stay with his father while your friend and younger DC comes with you? It doesn’t sound much fun for the eldest if new situations/extra children make him worse and it sounds like his mum and sibling could use a break.

It’s very unfair to exclude her if the rest of the group are going. Could you stay somewhere where each family has their own space so it’s not so intense and people can retreat as necessary.

The dad has him very occasionally and her mum and dad have him the odd night too. But not much because they find him challenging.

"However, I know my friend would be devastated if she thought they were being excluded."

This is the nub of it. However you justify it to yourselves, whatever the poll says or how many people tell you YANBU, there is no way to exclude your friend and her family without it being extremely hurtful. It IS personal, and there's no use pretending otherwise.

It's possible she wouldn't even want to go, but that wouldn't stop the sting at all.

Not inviting her is a terrible idea.
There are lots of adults around, and in a villa with a pool the children should NEVER be unsupervised - telling them to not go near the pool isn't supervision, it’s the very opposite. I would never put a close friend in this position.

This is a good idea

Is it possible to go to the same place without all staying together? So you all get a break from each other and can meet up in smaller groups too?

That's a thought. Does he enjoy being around lots of children himself or does he prefer small groups or no other children?

If he was my child I would take him for regular breaks, providing calming strategies, give clear boundaries and follow through but he isn’t and I can tell her how to parent.

You lost me at this. I've spent my whole adult life working with children and families including those with SEN. I thought I knew it all, until I had my own child with SEN and I realised that a lot of the advice I'd happily been dishing out for years was bollocks. Well intentioned bollocks, but bollocks nonetheless. So many of the "strategies" that are claimed to benefit ND kids are devised by NT adults and do not work in reality. It's so easy to give advice, or to think you know what you would do but the 24/7 reality of parenting a child with SEN is something you really can't understand until you've lived it.

You are entitled to have the holiday you want, so YANBU to leave her out of it if you don't think it's going to be a good fit. But it does sounds like you judge her parenting and I'd be willing to bet she's not oblivious to this.

He wouldn’t have him even if we did suggest it

What a difficult situation. If you all go together no one really gets a break. If you go without your friend and her DS, they don’t get a break. Holidays are expensive and YANBU to go only to be frazzled and unrested. I’d hate to leave my friend out so think I’d just abandon the idea of a group holiday for the time being, even though that’s a shame.

I don’t think you’re unreasonable for wanting a relaxing holiday where the kids play happily amongst themselves without drama. But the cost of that will probably be your friendship, or at least the cost will be that you get what you want while deeply hurting your friend.

His behaviour is mostly fine with adults. He will gravitate towards the kids so part him him clearly prefers the company of kids he just doesn’t seem to be able to cope with the dynamics.

I wonder if she’d actually want to come? Could you moot “we were all thinking of a holiday” without specifying hotel/apartments or a big shared villa. She might think the idea of taking him abroad is hell on earth and not want to come… in which case you can get the villa. Whereas if she wanted to come you could look at separate apartments or hotel?

You sound like you know how to deal with his issues well, but do the other adults?
How will they feel having to take their turns?

My arse is on the fence, I can see why it would be more fun and easier without him

How will friend react? Is there any chance of dad having him for a week, or grandparent. It's def give mum the needed break