To not invite friend because of SEN child

[GameOverBoys]

I know I’m going to get roasted here so I will try to give all the information.
Myself and a few friends have been discussing getting a villa for a holiday next summer. There are 5 families all with children aged 6 to 13. We all went to uni together with another friend who has two boys. Her eldest (10 years old) is on the pathway and I feel fairly confident that he is neuro-diverse. Maybe autism or ADHD but has traits of both. So far, we haven’t invited her but now we are looking for villas we need to make a decision if we are going to or not. She is a lovely, sweet woman and we would have no question if it wasn’t for the impact on the group that her eldest has. He is not safe to be left unsupervised with the other kids. In the past there has been constant issues ranging from rough play, making threats and impulsive unsafe actions to punching and throwing things at the others.
He’s very bright, articulate and thoughtful boy and thrives on adult interaction. Away from other kids, I enjoy spending time with him a lot.
During play dates and get togethers we tend to take it in turns to supervise the kids and he is generally much better behaved when watched and any major danger can be stopped. It’s also easy to spot triggers like competitive games. He is also better when there are fewer kids. If we go to a villa (with a swimming pool) supervising him will be impossible and we want to have a break and just let the kids have a bit of freedom. The other children are all old enough and sensible enough to listen to instructions, such as you can’t go to the pool area.
His mother does her best but when she supervises him his behaviour is much worse for her. Her youngest is well behaved so I don’t feel it’s particularly bad parenting, just a stressed out single parent with few resources left to deal with a very hard to parent child. She also has a physical disability which can sometimes stop her being able to intervene. If he was my child I would take him for regular breaks, providing calming strategies, give clear boundaries and follow through but he isn’t and I can tell her how to parent.
I don’t think she realises how bad it is because this has always been her situation, but it’s constant. The group get on so well when he’s not there. There is no need to get involved, other than the occasional requests for food etc and it’s really relaxing. When he is there it is drama the entire time. I think he just doesn’t have the social skills to mix in a big group and he get’s overstimulated. However, I know my friend would be devastated if she thought they were being excluded.

YABU - You are being unreasonable to exclude someone because of SEN

YANBU - You are not being unreasonable to want a relaxing holiday and only invite who you want to

I feel so bad for her
You need to talk to her and gently point out your concerns. Hopefully she will reach the conclusion on her own that it's best not to come. But you can't book without talking to her first, as that would be very hurtful.
Could you offer to take the well-behaved younger sibling on holiday with you, and dress it up as giving mum and older brother some 1:1 time?
I appreciate that would take a big heart, but it wouldn't be much extra work for anyone.

His mother's friends who routinely babysit him and have him overnight?

His mother's friends who routinely babysit him and have him overnight?

I agree. This is a very unfair thing to imply about the friends as its obvious they go out of their way to help their friend by babysitting and having him overnight to give her a break- thats a big responsibility and its kind of them to do it. Considering the safety of all on a holiday doesnt make them uncaring bitches who "dont want him" FGS.

I'd she gets PIP for him she might have some the money to pay for seperate accommodation but close to the villa the rest of you stay in. Also if she's lucky enough to get direct payments and has some hours banked. She could pay some of you to give him one to one.

They don't want him on the holiday. He's "less" than the other kids.

Nice quote mining of my reply there.

They want a nice, relaxing and enjoyable holiday.
The behaviours of concern mean that not only is this potentially not possible but that their children could be harmed and have their holiday ruined.
Their concersn are valid.

No, he’s proven himself to be a risk to the other kids, which is not something the other parents want to subject themselves and their children to on holiday.

He threatens, shoves, and throws punches. It’s hardly right to expect children to deal with that for the duration of a holiday they presumably should be enjoying.

@VitoCorleoneOfMNMafia seems like you’re doing quite a bit of quote mining yourself ignoring what OP actually said and how much they help this friend and putting words into their mouths that he is “less than” 🙄

VitoCorleoneOfMNMafia: If there's a whole friendship group, and they do things together as a group of friends, it's not very friendly for them to decide to omit one friend from what would otherwise be a full group because that person's disabilities are inconvenient. They can go hiking or what-have-you outside of the friendship group to use their annual leave. A "second year housemates do the Catskills" holiday isn't the same as a "second year housemates, apart from Eric 'cos he's in a wheelchair, do the Catskills" holiday.

Rubbish. If they all want to go hiking then they should, and I'd be a shit friend for making them feel bad about it. Who do you think you are to dictate how other people use their annual leave?

She probably wouldn't be that surprised tbh. We get left out of everything since my ASD son's behaviour became apparent, parties, holidays etc. just aren't a thing for us anymore.
We get invited to adult only events sometimes and just one of us (usually DH) goes as we have no childcare options but we don't hold it against our friends.
It's a shit situation and it does hurt but I get it.

If you regularly spend time with her and her son and even babysit, it's extremely unlikely that she'd risk falling out with you!

I am not dictating how anyone should use their annual leave. I don't have the power to do that, and even if I did I wouldn't because there are aspects of morality that should not be legislated about.

I am judging them as shit friends.

Again the shit friends who routinely babysit including overnights?

If she thinks like you and becomes isolated it won't be down to her SEN child. It would be her fault.

In reply to ItsNotRocketSalad. The site keeps throwing up 500 errors in pop-ups and the comment form doesn't include my username or the quote.

I'm judging you as a shit friend. The world doesn't revolve around you.

Do you think you’d do it though? Would you happily spend time with a pre-teen boy (mine was a big lad at that age) who would threaten and physically attack your children so that people didn’t think you were a ‘shit friend?’

Where does it end? Can he spit on your young kids so you aren’t a shit friend? Can he break their belongings? Where do you draw the line and say that being a good friend doesn’t mean telling your kids to accept being threatened and attacked?

I was talking specifically to RocketSalad about not including adult friends who are disabled.

If you want to talk about isolation, then yeah, let's do that. We can talk about how Deaf people make their own communities of people who are Deaf and understand what being Deaf is like. Likewise blind people. Being autistic in a neurotypical world is really hard and I tend to get on better with other autistic people. Mainstream society is isolating if you are disabled. The whole world is geared up for "not you".

So if you are going to be friends with someone disabled, consider how it feels when your friends plan an activity that is for "not you".

And in turn its OK to expect this mother to understand that these people don't want their children to be hurt in what should be an enjoyable time and to hold the expectation that this isn't going to happen.

If the problem is the boy's behaviour and not his ADHD, why did the OP raise the ADHD? I'd want to know if the boy is still acting like that. Have meds helped him to stop?

And you've all missed the point I tried to make with my long post, which is that the rest of the group are talking behind this mother's back like she and her son are problems to be managed rather than people to be involved in the decision making. That's the really hurtful thing. That's the thing that makes it clear that at some point after the birth of her son, she stopped being a friend to be consulted with and became a charity case.

Because whether people like it or not her attendance will alter the holdiay. So some want to abse their attendance on hers and want a plan of action.

It feels fine when friends plan things I can't do. Please stop acting like you speak on behalf of all disabled people. YOU don't like it when your friends do things you can't do. I'm happy for my friends to do things they enjoy.

Aw this is really hard! I don’t think you are being unreasonable , but I don’t think it would be fair to exclude her either!
I think she would be really upset and hurt by it.
so Tricky - I’d say I think she should be invited/ or don’t do a big group holiday/ or do something different like separate apartments/accommodation, so that time can be spent separately
and have some time relaxing without the child in question

I presume she raised it because it’s relevant in how she feels. She feels sympathy for the mother because the boy has difficulties that impact his behaviour. And as for meds - the op can hardly bring that up, can she?

Unfortunately it is very difficult to involve someone else in the decision about whether or not they should be invited to threaten and injure your child. Because what if they decide that yes, they’ll come along and hurt you?

Would a complex not be better with small villas based around a pool. Everyone has own villa/apartment and socialises in communal area

Disable

arghh the servber error!