To not invite friend because of SEN child

[GameOverBoys]

I know I’m going to get roasted here so I will try to give all the information.
Myself and a few friends have been discussing getting a villa for a holiday next summer. There are 5 families all with children aged 6 to 13. We all went to uni together with another friend who has two boys. Her eldest (10 years old) is on the pathway and I feel fairly confident that he is neuro-diverse. Maybe autism or ADHD but has traits of both. So far, we haven’t invited her but now we are looking for villas we need to make a decision if we are going to or not. She is a lovely, sweet woman and we would have no question if it wasn’t for the impact on the group that her eldest has. He is not safe to be left unsupervised with the other kids. In the past there has been constant issues ranging from rough play, making threats and impulsive unsafe actions to punching and throwing things at the others.
He’s very bright, articulate and thoughtful boy and thrives on adult interaction. Away from other kids, I enjoy spending time with him a lot.
During play dates and get togethers we tend to take it in turns to supervise the kids and he is generally much better behaved when watched and any major danger can be stopped. It’s also easy to spot triggers like competitive games. He is also better when there are fewer kids. If we go to a villa (with a swimming pool) supervising him will be impossible and we want to have a break and just let the kids have a bit of freedom. The other children are all old enough and sensible enough to listen to instructions, such as you can’t go to the pool area.
His mother does her best but when she supervises him his behaviour is much worse for her. Her youngest is well behaved so I don’t feel it’s particularly bad parenting, just a stressed out single parent with few resources left to deal with a very hard to parent child. She also has a physical disability which can sometimes stop her being able to intervene. If he was my child I would take him for regular breaks, providing calming strategies, give clear boundaries and follow through but he isn’t and I can tell her how to parent.
I don’t think she realises how bad it is because this has always been her situation, but it’s constant. The group get on so well when he’s not there. There is no need to get involved, other than the occasional requests for food etc and it’s really relaxing. When he is there it is drama the entire time. I think he just doesn’t have the social skills to mix in a big group and he get’s overstimulated. However, I know my friend would be devastated if she thought they were being excluded.

YABU - You are being unreasonable to exclude someone because of SEN

YANBU - You are not being unreasonable to want a relaxing holiday and only invite who you want to

You need to speak to your friend.
She knows what her kid is like and that he is worse when she’s watching him.
You need to explain you and the other friends will be leaving your kids to it basically as they’re old enough and want to have some freedom. You also need to explain that it’s all of your holidays too and want to relax without necessarily having to be on child duty.
Im guessing she’ll be upset but understand that this is unlikely to be the case if her dc is there,

Dont just not invite her though as she’s a friend and deserves an explanation.

Erm actually the OP DOES mention they have playdates, and she spends time with the kid. So he's included in these.
The question is whether a large group holiday, in which the adults expect minimal supervision, is suitable?

I mean it's up to everyone. It's their own money. If the expectations are laid out and they don't want to go fine.

There's nothing to stop the group splintering however. Say OP is fine, 2 are on the fence, and 2 absolutely don't want the kid. Nothing to stop the last 2, or even 2 or 3 going on their own holiday. But is that excluding - it's not all of them, just half the group?

So true 🙏. I have been on the receiving end of this type of judgement from a friend & to be honest I don’t want to go away with her now anyway! Luckily there are some people that make more effort to make adjustments so that everyone has a good time.

How long are you planning on going for? Would it be possible for her and her DC to join you for a two or three nights of the rest of you are going for a week? Obviously it's still a very difficult conversation but I think it's an impossible situation anyway and perhaps would demonstrate that you really want to find a way to make it work, rather than just talking the easy way and quietly excluding her?

To me there is a difference in 'oh you are in wheelchair, have quirks, is different and it makes us feel uncomfortable so we are not inviting you'

And actual behaviour that affects everyone around you and or parents who do nothing to help the situation

Not those exact words and not saying all this is exactly the same as the op

I totally agree. If it was as easy as just following a parenting strategy don’t you think we would have all done that and the result would be beautifully behaved sen children?
So YABU on that point alone

Totally understand where you’re coming from, but I don’t think I could exclude a friend like that. It’d be a treble blow for her as it’s not only her, but her child with SEN and her other child being left out. It would feel terrible and I couldn’t do it.

Being a single parent is incredibly isolating anyway without adding a sen child into the mix, which just furthers the isolation. I know this from experience as I am a single parent with a sen child.

I understand what you are saying. But I personally would be so so hurt to face this from my so called 'friends' with friends like you, who needs enemies!

Okay I realise this sounds rubbish and I do understand the needs of a challenging child but...

1. Unless all parents have the same parenting styles it's going to be a nightmare anyway.
2. I wouldn't be going if the child in question was going, not if I'm paying good money for a relaxing time.
3. The responsibility for keeping the child safe is the parents, it's not anyone else in the group. It sounds mad/unlikely to happen that one of the non related adults has to take said child off to read, do a jigsaw etc whilst the mother is relaxing by the pool just to keep other children safe. Why would you set a rota for that? If my child couldn't behave it would be me doing the managing, whether or not you thought I was doing a good job. It doesn't seem like there are any relatives in the group so that makes it even less likely that volunteers will step up to do the minding. Or if they do will quickly change their mind.
4. Think you've all been very lucky that there is only one child that is challenging, or have you all got rose tinted sunglasses in respect of your own children? There must be at least two more in the group who boundary push at the very least.
5. No matter how obedient my child is I wouldn't be allowing them free rein if there was a pool etc, even if behind a fence (age dependent, but not under 10) . I would then feel obliged to watch all the kids as well and end up being driven scatty. Whilst the other parents relax. See point 1 above. It would likely be me who had to sort out the kids food and snacks as well. I'd feel resentful and like a martyr very quickly.

She will be upset if you don't invite her. The family with the injured child will be upset if you do.

I think it's too complicated. It's easier when they are all under 3 or over say 12 to do a massive group holiday but in between nope.

I am thinking about the other DC on this holiday, some as young as 6. Are we really saying the sum total of the other children (how many of them, 8, maybe?) are going to cause no disruption at all and there will be very little supervision and the adults will just be lounging around drinking cocktails and reading a best-seller?

Are these other children all very rare super well behaved children that don't moan and get too hot or bored or constantly ask for things on holiday? Or fight or push or shove? Because even just a cursory read of threads on Mumsnet once everyone is off on holiday suggests that there is a lot of this going on from what I assume to be NT kids as well as ND kids.

From my experience having gone away with family and lots of NT kids, there isn't a great deal of relaxing going on any way.

Some of these posts have made me well up as the OP basically describes my DS8, and if I didn't imagine how some people feel about my son and our family, at least now I really know.

Thank you to those of you that show empathy and compassion and try to include us. We know it's hard for you but it means so so bloody much.

Forgive for what? I'm a parent of an SEN child and I wouldn't forgive myself if my child ruined the holiday of 4 families and badly hurt another child. Why are so many SEN parents so self absorbed? Our friends with NT kids are allowed to have holidays.

If he was my child I would take him for regular breaks, providing calming strategies, give clear boundaries and follow through but he isn’t and I can tell her how to parent.

😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂 How clueless, naive and judgemental you are OP.

Could you all afford to chip in for a nanny, or another adult, to come along and primarily be a 1-2-1 for this lad? No idea what this would cost, and if this would be at all feasible, but it might be a solution. Obviously they couldn't be working 24/7 but it would lessen the impact on everyone else.

Agree with this.
You know your friend is struggling. You know she has minimal support and instead of looking for solutions (e.g. stay close but seperate locations, stay in villa but hire childcare for the week so you all get a break etc.) you are thinking of excluding her altogether, and judging her parenting along with it.
Thats horrible. There but for the grace etc.
If you dont invite her you should do so with the knowledge it will likely end your friendship. And will definitely hurt her.

I do really empathise with the Mum as a parent as my eldest has a diagnosis, however she has never, ever hurt or threatened to hurt another child and is more likely to walk away crying than lash out. But even that can be tricky for other children to understand. I wouldn't go on this type of holiday with a child who can be aggressive unless I was willing to be on top of him 100% of the time, it's not fair on others as much as she needs a break too.

Same and that’s the part that had me voting OP is nbu. That is a major point that has to be taken in consideration that some seem to be glossing over and doubt they would be saying the same if it was an NT child. Regardless, the parents would be expected to be on top of them to stop and prevent such aggressions happening to other children.

I would either invite her or not do a group holiday.
Personally I fi d group holidays a nightmare especially with other people's kids. Its not the children's fault, it's just everyone has different parenting styles and allows different levels of behaviour.
This child might be hard work but so might the other children for different reasons.

Love how everyone is ignoring the fact that the child in question is physically violent and pushed one of the group’s children off a climbing frame and injuring her. Don’t put your child at risk OP. SEN or not, you need to put your children first and keep them safe

Doesn’t sound like a holiday for everyone else, sorry. You can meet up with your friend back home in this kid’s own environment where he feels more secure.

You can’t leave them out. Personally, I’d forget about the holiday for a few years.

Do not do this to your friend.

probably means not doing the villa holiday. But honestly. This is horrible.

As the parent of that child (or used to be, he is 16 now and much calmer/easier supervised, although in company he does need to be watched as he can be rough with middle aged kids, he's fab with the little ones though... very protective.. its sweet) i would understand why i wasn't invited, but i would be so very, very hurt by it all.

You are of course entitled to go on holiday with whoever you like, whenever you like, but if you ALL go as a big group, and she is the only one excluded, you can't NOT hurt her feelings.

Having a child like that, on top of her own disability is SO fucking hard (i'm in same boat there too) and it restricts so much of your social life, the time spent with friends is essential, especially when they're willing to help supervise.

You're going to absolutely crush her if you all go and don't invite her, and i'm not sure the friendship would survive it.

I'd book separate hotels or villas in a nearby place and meet up occasionally for meals and excursions
This way people can choose whether to come and join in on group activities & also have private family time. Nobody gets excluded, the invitation goes to all and it's upto them whether they join or not.

I'm torn.

If I am going on holiday with my family that's just it a holiday, a chance to relax, spend time with my kids, sit back to a certain extent and let the kids do their own thing as they are now old enough, no drama, no fuss and limited requests from the kids. Sounds picture perfect and something that I would imagine would not come cheap so I would be paying for a lovely break that me and my kids would look forward to and enjoy. It would be ruined if I had to step up and supervise another child that was not mine. I would not be willing to put up with aggressive behaviour, constantly being on alert, worrying about my child getting hurt. The whole dynamic changes and then suddenly it is not a relaxing holiday anymore, everyone on high alert and holiday ruined. I would not want to have the child present for these reasons.

On the other hand I feel desperately sorry for the mother. It must be shit. She would be very aware that people don't like how her son behaves and that she is unable to control him. That must feel lousy. Being left out must feel lousy and being the parent of a child with SEN must be lousy aswell when you are aware of how others feel about your child when there is fuck all you can do about it.

This

As a parent of a similar child to the ops friend yanbu…. How will you explain it to her though? She will probably be upset. I feel for you both what a tricky situation.