To not invite friend because of SEN child

[GameOverBoys]

I know I’m going to get roasted here so I will try to give all the information.
Myself and a few friends have been discussing getting a villa for a holiday next summer. There are 5 families all with children aged 6 to 13. We all went to uni together with another friend who has two boys. Her eldest (10 years old) is on the pathway and I feel fairly confident that he is neuro-diverse. Maybe autism or ADHD but has traits of both. So far, we haven’t invited her but now we are looking for villas we need to make a decision if we are going to or not. She is a lovely, sweet woman and we would have no question if it wasn’t for the impact on the group that her eldest has. He is not safe to be left unsupervised with the other kids. In the past there has been constant issues ranging from rough play, making threats and impulsive unsafe actions to punching and throwing things at the others.
He’s very bright, articulate and thoughtful boy and thrives on adult interaction. Away from other kids, I enjoy spending time with him a lot.
During play dates and get togethers we tend to take it in turns to supervise the kids and he is generally much better behaved when watched and any major danger can be stopped. It’s also easy to spot triggers like competitive games. He is also better when there are fewer kids. If we go to a villa (with a swimming pool) supervising him will be impossible and we want to have a break and just let the kids have a bit of freedom. The other children are all old enough and sensible enough to listen to instructions, such as you can’t go to the pool area.
His mother does her best but when she supervises him his behaviour is much worse for her. Her youngest is well behaved so I don’t feel it’s particularly bad parenting, just a stressed out single parent with few resources left to deal with a very hard to parent child. She also has a physical disability which can sometimes stop her being able to intervene. If he was my child I would take him for regular breaks, providing calming strategies, give clear boundaries and follow through but he isn’t and I can tell her how to parent.
I don’t think she realises how bad it is because this has always been her situation, but it’s constant. The group get on so well when he’s not there. There is no need to get involved, other than the occasional requests for food etc and it’s really relaxing. When he is there it is drama the entire time. I think he just doesn’t have the social skills to mix in a big group and he get’s overstimulated. However, I know my friend would be devastated if she thought they were being excluded.

YABU - You are being unreasonable to exclude someone because of SEN

YANBU - You are not being unreasonable to want a relaxing holiday and only invite who you want to

@ItsNotRocketSalad to finish my point
Yes apart from that not all disabilities are the same.
I have ADHD and autism. I do not want to hang out with my kind who are late, talk over me constantly, are rude and always insist on their own way.
And again, some of this is the fault of the condition! But I am not an emotional support human, especially as I'm a woman.
If I was NT I would be flamed but because I'm ND it's fine?? wowzers.

ADHD comes under ND.

And if the child is on the waiting list for assessment it means professionals have agreed it's likely that he is.

DS is waiting for assessment for ASD. After a two hour interview CAMHS turned him down for mental health support because they think it's ND. His school think he's ASD even though they can't officially say it. Every sodding person I've spoken to from a range of organisations - and there have been a lot at this point - agree that he almost certainly is autistic.

Should we all pretend it's not the case, beat ourselves up about our terrible parenting, and treat him as NT despite the harm that was doing to him?

The boy may or may not be ND, however when it comes to safeguarding my child its the actions not the causes that matter. I would need to protect my child and if that means keeping a distance when my child is with me then that is what I will do.

True, but I was responding to the idea that no diagnosis = no SEN.

This is what I was going to say. It just isn’t going to work without either her being really devastated, or the holiday not being relaxing.

I would not exclude the ND kid. I would accept that it might make my holiday say 10% less relaxing but that’s life. My heart would break to exclude a family with already so much on their plate.

When I think of my groups of friends, I can think of one group who would not invite the ND child; they would say things like, oh she wouldn’t want to go anyway, we have to keep our own kids safe etc. And another group who would bend over backwards to support this family. Everyone is different.

I am so aware of the privilege of having kids without special needs that I would definitely want to accommodate a family that had struggles. I do believe that as a community we have to support those with challenges; that is absolutely the right things to do, even if it comes at some cost to ourselves. And I say that as someone who doesn’t have the means to go on holidays that often.

This seems to be the prevailing view unfortunately. Put your head in the sand & pretend they are ‘normal’ & don’t get them any support but it’s ok because at least you aren’t labelling them 🙄.

I think the mother of this boy eould be very selfish to think you have to change or spoil your holiday to include them

@Madeintowerhamlets
This seems to be the prevailing view unfortunately. Put your head in the sand & pretend they are ‘normal’ & don’t get them any support but it’s ok because at least you aren’t labelling them 🙄.

I partially get this, because there have been problems in the past where young people could end up with a long list of diagnoses that then follow them for the rest of their lives. It was an issue, and is where professionals being wary of applying certain diagnoses comes from. But the reluctance to 'label' (ie diagnose) I see coming from parents is weird. I'm desperate for DS to be assessed to help us help him and help him understand himself, because at the moment he thinks something is wrong with him and that he's a bad person.

@pinkginfizz9
I take your point, but then is it selfish to ever leave the house with him to meet anyone with children with them? OP and their friends might want to relax with coffee and cake, having a chat while the kids are in the playground.

('Fortunately' if DS is being violent it's only ever targeted at me and DH, and in public if he has a meltdown, he shuts down rather than lashing out. But I still watch him like a hawk because he's big for his age and way behind his peers socially. He is very good with younger children though, I just have to shout reminders that they're a lot smaller than him so be careful)

I'd have a talk to your friend, OP. But I wouldn't be happy with a villa holiday including a child who was likely to threaten or injure my own. It's the other children's holiday too and they aren't going to enjoy it if they don't feel safe. Your friend would feel hurt if excluded, but if you all go away and there is an incident with a child being seriously injured, that could also ruin the friendship in the future. Perhaps separate accommodation would work, although that would probably push the cost up considerably.

@EilonwyWithRedGoldHair , I totally agree when it comes to professionals & have worked in the NHS/ education myself. For me it seems mostly to come from other parents & I find that harder to understand. Like you I want to ensure my DC gets the support she needs to make settings like school more tolerable.

I mean op not been back since meeting some do the friends. But I think the fact it’s got to a possibly booking stage and nobody has mentioned it to this mum kinda shows nobody wants them there.

Now if by some Sod’s Law you decide to invite her now, she’s going to know she was left out of the original plan anyway, as otherwise you would all be chatting and planning together. Not so we were thinking holiday X place Y time want to come? That shows the plans where made with her left out anyway.

This is so hard. I feel for your friend because she clearly gets next to no support from her ex. She must be drained.

However, it doesn’t sound as if she really supervises her son properly, so it’s understandable that this is going to massively change the dynamics of a group holiday. It’s also not very fair on the children who are on the receiving end of his behaviour.

Can you be honest with her about the dilemma or would she be too hurt?

Very difficult one OP.

The only thing I thought of is could the other adults on the holiday agree a rota between you so that each of you watches the kids for X amount of time in the day? That way you still get a break.

You seem like a very kind person & you’ve taken the negative comments well.

I have no doubt in my mind that having a child with any level of additional needs is very very difficult. But parents without those challenges still need a break, so I understand the dilemma. I personally wouldn’t go & not invite her because the guilt wouldn’t be worth it. Id either invite her or go on separate holidays.