To not invite friend because of SEN child

[GameOverBoys]

I know I’m going to get roasted here so I will try to give all the information.
Myself and a few friends have been discussing getting a villa for a holiday next summer. There are 5 families all with children aged 6 to 13. We all went to uni together with another friend who has two boys. Her eldest (10 years old) is on the pathway and I feel fairly confident that he is neuro-diverse. Maybe autism or ADHD but has traits of both. So far, we haven’t invited her but now we are looking for villas we need to make a decision if we are going to or not. She is a lovely, sweet woman and we would have no question if it wasn’t for the impact on the group that her eldest has. He is not safe to be left unsupervised with the other kids. In the past there has been constant issues ranging from rough play, making threats and impulsive unsafe actions to punching and throwing things at the others.
He’s very bright, articulate and thoughtful boy and thrives on adult interaction. Away from other kids, I enjoy spending time with him a lot.
During play dates and get togethers we tend to take it in turns to supervise the kids and he is generally much better behaved when watched and any major danger can be stopped. It’s also easy to spot triggers like competitive games. He is also better when there are fewer kids. If we go to a villa (with a swimming pool) supervising him will be impossible and we want to have a break and just let the kids have a bit of freedom. The other children are all old enough and sensible enough to listen to instructions, such as you can’t go to the pool area.
His mother does her best but when she supervises him his behaviour is much worse for her. Her youngest is well behaved so I don’t feel it’s particularly bad parenting, just a stressed out single parent with few resources left to deal with a very hard to parent child. She also has a physical disability which can sometimes stop her being able to intervene. If he was my child I would take him for regular breaks, providing calming strategies, give clear boundaries and follow through but he isn’t and I can tell her how to parent.
I don’t think she realises how bad it is because this has always been her situation, but it’s constant. The group get on so well when he’s not there. There is no need to get involved, other than the occasional requests for food etc and it’s really relaxing. When he is there it is drama the entire time. I think he just doesn’t have the social skills to mix in a big group and he get’s overstimulated. However, I know my friend would be devastated if she thought they were being excluded.

YABU - You are being unreasonable to exclude someone because of SEN

YANBU - You are not being unreasonable to want a relaxing holiday and only invite who you want to

Her supervising doesn’t really help, they have a strange dynamic. He acts up for her but is better for the other adults. Usually someone else just ends up taking over. Which means she gets a break but isn’t much fun for the parents who have to watch them all constantly.

But he is physically violent. He hits people and throws things at people. It’s clearly said in the OP.

I like the suggestion of a holiday where you can all have your own space. Like cottages/gites with a shared pool, or an apartment complex with a big shared pool. I suspect you may find it hard to find a villa that will hold 5/6 families (20+ people??) anyway.

That way she can choose which bits to join in with depending on how her DS is doing that day and what tends to set him off. I imagine she is very aware of his behaviour and will take him off if he’s being a problem.

I agree that if you all go and don’t invite her it may well spell the end of the friendship.

Yes. He didn’t push her off, but shoved her and she fell.

I would be completely honest with your friend and explain why you don't want her to come, it's much better it comes from you.

Your friend will be devastated and will feel excluded.

Point blank.

Approx. 5 adults will be supervising the children, including your friend's son. They just need to keep a watchful eye, tell him off when needs be.

It's an impossible situation op. I voted yanbu but I can see how hurt the other parent will be. Is there any way the child will be on meds by the time you go?

WOW.
YA absolutely not being U.
No way would I as a parent want my kid injured. Nope.
As a PP said sounding out whether she WANTS to go on holiday first is a good idea, but if she does you're better off not inviting her and telling her why.

What’s the difference between pushing her off and shoving her so she falls?

He purposely injured her. He’s physically violent. Just keep in mind that inviting him will change the dynamic of your trip and put the other children at risk.

Id not go on holiday with a child who may harm my child - end of.
In fact a villa with other families sounds like my idea of hell 🤮 so Id not go either way

I have a child with additional needs. If you spoke like this behind my back then you wouldn't have to worry as the friendship would be over. All this talk about a relaxing holiday blah blah, do you think those of us with children with additional needs get all the time in the world to relax? Either invite all friends or invite none. But don't blame the child with SEN, that's on you.

As others have said if you value her at all then ask her to come and let her make her own mi d up. If she does come, support her by doing a rota for parent in charge or something like that. Then everyone gets some sort of break.

If you choose not to invite her at all then make peace with breaking her heart and saying goodbye to this friendship.

I completely understand this point of view. I actually thought I’d be roasted more than I have been. This is why I want to ask on an anonymous forum so people can tell me the truth. His own dad won’t have him much so I’m pretty sure he already feels rejected even if he doesn’t fully understand why yet.

If this is going to devastate her, I'd definitely be questioning whether it's fair to go ahead as planned. Is there another way of doing it that doesn't involve everyone living in the same space, which might mean they can be included? If not and you are going to go ahead with this type of group holiday and not invite her, please please please talk to her first and explain why.

i think you sound very kind actually Op. I understand why you don’t want to invite them but I think having a big group holiday, excluding them would be far too cruel. So invite them in a way that each family has its own space or just don’t go ahead with it.

@GameOverBoys

(A) He pushed her at the top of a climbing frame because she wouldn't [?] get out of his way and she fell off.

(B) he’s honestly the sweetest boy

Can you see the problem I'm having?

YABU not to invite her. Just imagine how isolated and hurt she would feel. I personally think it's unforgivable for you all to go and not invite her. Your only options here are to either invite her and she will likely decline as you say her son gets overstimulated and isn't good in large group situations or just forget the holiday all together.

Loads of MN will vote you are being unreasonable because its not THEIR child being in danger

I’m just heading out but will update when I get back this afternoon

I don’t blame you at all.

It’s lovely when DC get to the age where you can supervise much more loosely. You are in that situation but your friend isn’t. You want a family break and to have adult time occasionally while the DC play together.

You need to be really honest with your friend about the reasons why though and to expect her to be hurt.

All this .....
honestly, let her see you for who you are and let her find new friends. The ones she has are shit

State the safety aspect of her DC not coming but she is welcome to come alone because she needs some alone time with her friends

You need to sell it to her in that way

Brush up on good marketing skills

I would pull out of the group holiday if he was coming. I'm not putting my child in danger

I would agree that he sounds as though large groups are too much for him, and as his parent I would likely avoid these situations. For him as much as her.

Could you find a villa which has room for her only? If she could get child care for the weekend/week so might appreciate the break but how you approach that is tricky. Being honest could go one of two ways.

You could just explain it, be kind but be honest and say you were thinking of doing this but that you know groups settings can be tricky for him and a week might be way too much. Test the water and see what she says.

Sorry but you're very unreasonable. My DD has SEN and the reality is it is lonely and exhausting, but it is also really difficult to be friends with someone who has a child like this. That doesn't make either adult a bad friend. You have to acknowledge that people cannot always put you first as a parent of an SEN child, they have their own families and happiness to prioritise. I don't think the OP has said anything rude or that would upset me as a SEN parent. People have to think about these things, there's the safety of other kids to take into account. The fact OP is so concerned they have posted for advice, and most people on here acknowledge that it's an impossible situation, says it all really. If you would cut off a friend for doing this, than you yourself aren't a very good friend.