To say no to social services re: my niece and nephews...

[mrsneate]

To cut a long story short, this is the fourth time in 9 years social services are involved with my brother and his children.

The first time. I drove 200 miles with no notice to collect Brother and his three kids. They lived with me for 8 months. It was hell. Small 3 bed house, 3 children of my own and my ex husband (we were still married) I supported them all financially, got them into schools, he was then given a council property, the children were taken off the register (on it because of their mum)

Fast forward 3 years, a neighbour reported him for various things. They were put back on the register, my brother worked with them, I supported him.

18 months ago, 2am police knock on my door with my eldest nephew. (16 at this point!) him and dad had gotten into a physical fight, could I take him, of course I said yes, the next day social worker came round, when police had entered their property. It was t fit to live in. Stinking dirty, rubbish everywhere.

Me and my SIL (other brothers wife) went round, and blitzed his house, I did 20 loads of washing, 16 dishwasher cycles. The house was spotless.

They asked me to take all 3. I couldn't, I work full time night shifts and was a single parent, my nephew was with me for 10 weeks with no support from
Social services or my brother financial or otherwise, then my nephew was 17 and could decide he wanted to go home. He went home. Case was closed

This week, I randomly had a phone call from a social worker. There had been an anonymous report from someone that he was leaving the youngest alone for long periods (she's 11) and there was no food in the house. He's drinking all the time, the house is a state.

I only ever see my brother these days when he pops to my house with my niece. She always looks clean.

They told me it's looking like it's going down the route of removing the children (11 and 16?) and would I be in a position to take them in, until he decides to cooperate and work with them, told them no, although I'm no longer single, my fiancé works away for months at a time and I still work night shifts, and still only live in a 3 bed house with 2 of my boys (oldest has moved out) she got really arrogant with me after that. I pointed out they need to stop closing the case, keep them on the register.

But guilt is eating me up, there has been a suggestion they go back to their mother. But that will be a disaster. I have text my brother and offered to help him clean the house. Again, but I am
Pissed off with him, and it's annoying me that he keeps having passes because he's a male single parent! He works school hours and earns good money, he's not skint.

What would you do?

Yanbu. I'm sorry you are being made to feel responsible for this, completely unfair. The truth is that social services don't give a shit what impact it has on you or your kids.

His kids should be in Foster care.

OP,

I would be blocking the SW's number.
They are a bully.

Why are they not focused on holding your waster brother to account?

Far easier to bully you.

Block her number and if she calls to your home again, call the police and report her for harassment.

Far easier for her to bully you than properly do her job.

This should have been sorted for these children years ago, but she chose to harass you instead.

Why isn't he up for child neglect?

Block her number and be done.

I appreciate this is harsh but you have your own load.

So easy for foolish posters to say take them in, sleep on the floor, give up your job🙄.

Back in the real world, you have done your best, you are entitled to your life.

Block and refuse to engage further.

Let the SW get on with her job.

You cannot take them OP. You don't have the physical room nor will your shift work accommodate their care.

The best outcome for all would be Foster care with you and extended family keeping contact.

I know you feel racked with guilt but it simply isn't feasible to take them.

Wishing you all the best

Good idea.

All of those saying "I'd take the kids!", "I couldn't live with myself" etc - would they? Would they really?

A couple them may, but most of them would find a reason they couldn't in spite of their fine words, especially in circumstances like these where there is no end to the cycle of "take kids - clean up brows house - kids hime - further neglect - SS involved - take kids etc"

Paid foster parents would also be able to have an emotional detachment from the waste of space brother that the OP can't have because she is too involved in every respect.

@mrsneate - don't be bullied. For your own sake and the children's do NOT be coerced into taking them again. Itisn't fair on you, your children, your brother's children or your fiance. This cycle of dependence on you which your brother has built up needs to be broken.

It sounds difficult all round but I think the suggestion of a foster carer close to where you live, so that the kids can visit regularly, might be the best option.

*bro's house, not brows

Well said!

@mrsneate you sound like an amazing aunty whose done more than her best for her niece and nephew. You have clearly tried with your brother and until he helps himself you’ll just stay in this cycle.

I can imagine the guilt you feel, and as someone who suffers with guilt myself, I know nothing anyone says will stop how you are feeling.

You don’t need to justify yourself or your decisions to people with little/no ideas of how life is for you. You are perfectly entitled to ensure your own children are comfortable/happy and not lost because of your brothers poor choices.

If I was in this situation I would push that you can still have contact with the children as you sound like the positive influence they need. I really do feel for you and how difficult this must be.

Sorry you've been put in this position OP. Its easy to say "I'd take them" and I would have said that myself until I was actually put in that position, asked to take in a relative's newborn baby, and had to think about how it would actually affect our lives (not enough room, would have to give up my college course that's just starting, difficulties with facilitating contact). If you know you can't take them on its better to make that clear right now like you're doing, rather than give it a go and inevitably fail and mess up the children's lives even more instead of them just going straight into a foster arrangement with someone who is prepared and capable. I'd just find a way to stay in their lives, so they know they have an aunt they can talk to if they have problems.

I honestly don't get why you getting shit for not wanting to take in niece and nephews on here.

You've done so much for them but yet, your brother has let them down time and time again. You don't have anymore to give.

Your own family is your number one priority. Your niece and nephew need experienced foster carers who can deal with their mental health needs. I can see why you feel guilty but there is nothing else you can do.

I also think NICU nurses are angels, my son was premature :)

Thank you all. I have a meeting with the social worker tomorrow at my home.

I am aware children can't be kept on the register forever, they can however be kept on the child in need pathway, and it's very clear, given this is the fourth time they are involved in a short space of time that they all need support,

My brother will not let me past his front door. I have offered to help. More recently since the social first phoned me, he hasn't replied to any of my calls or messages.

All three children have mental health issues, the eldest now deal with it better but he used to kick off and trash the house. He is not in a position himself to take on the care of his younger siblings.

The middle boy. Often just keeps himself to himself and avoids his dad/siblings,

The youngest girl has massive attachment issues, behavioural issues and has had no clear boundaries or rules in place.. for example I gave them a lift home from school two weeks ago (to the back of the house so I didn't get inside) and she wanted to go the shop, my brother told her he would take her later, she kicked off and screamed and punched out for the whole journey in the car, broke part of my car in the process. She was still kicking off when I dropped them off.

I do already have them over for meals often, I see my niece regularly as her school is right by my house so when he's late (often!) he calls me to grab her from school, as I said she always looks clean and well when I see her.

I have taken her shopping recently for her prom dress and shoes.

The older boys know they can knock on my door any time they need to (we live about a 20 min walk away!) and they have done in the past when the house has had no electricity (pre payment meter!)

All three of them know they will always have me,

I have endured years of abuse from their mother.

My brother has an issue with alcohol, but he functions, he goes to work everyday, running his self employment painting and decorating business,

The main issues are the neglect, the state of the house. No food, leaving the youngest home along unsupervised for very long periods,

There is a lot of simple solutions to this. I can see that but I'm not a feckless idiot. And I also realise me keeping his house clean and making sure the kids are fed will not solve things long term,

For those negative comments about my niece being left alone and me knowing About, whenever I've been made aware and I haven't been in work, I have gone right over and collected her, as my other brother has too, but one night here and there on the sofa is ok, it's not acceptable for her to live on a sofa. She is of an age she needs privacy as she's growing and developing.

As are my own children, I left an abusive marriage 9 years ago, with just the clothes on our back, I was in a dire place but my children always came first, and they always will! My youngest and his youngest so not get along, they fight like siblings and he doesn't want them here either. They lived together for a long time and were in a mixed class all through the same school together,

I posted to see if I could make it work. But whichever way I think about it, I can't. And then I'd fail them too.

Of course I will keep in regular contact with them though!

I think you sound like an amazing person OP.

A great mum and a great auntie.

You've been doing everything humanly possible to help and it has reached a point where what is being asked if you is simply too much.

You've done nothing wrong, ignore anyone who says otherwise

They cannot ask you to take the children into your care without payment. As soon as they say words to the effect of this they're legally obligated to financially support as they've made it a placement. Speak to Family Rigts Group - they offer free legal advice.

OP this is so hard but I think you have to park the guilt. I'm just thinking back to my teens having my bedroom was everything and kept me sane. If I suddenly had to share with a cousin this would have definitely had a very detrimental effect on my wellbeing. These kids aren't going to be 'easy' kids either and I just think it will pull the whole family down.

I don't know much about the care system but I think (respectfully) moving in with your family isn't going to be great for anyone so taking a chance they'll get a good foster carer is a better option right now.

It's about more than money. The OP hasn't got the room, she has children of her own, and she has a career she loves.

Yes this is a great suggestion. It’s not a question of taking them / not taking them. Get a meeting with SS and make a plan that suits everyone.

If your brother isn't skint can you convince him to pay for regular help such as a cleaner? And make sure he gets regular grocery deliveries? Sorry, maybe I'm being really naive but it seems like he does at least have some resources

It’s not just about money. She doesn’t have the space, time, or ability to take on extra children, and children with significant need at that.

Taking them on could do untold damage in regards to her home, career, and her relationships with both her partner and her own children.

She knows all this and has said no. She doesn’t need to do anything now other than firmly tell the social worker to fuck off.

I have no advice I can add, but I just wanted to say what an amazing person you are. Doing such a fantastic job, raising your 3 child alone for many years, doing so much for your niece and nephews. I can understand your anger towards your brother, it is warranted and you mustn’t feel guilty that you cannot take his younger 2 in at this time. You do so much for them already and whilst it’s heartbreaking to think of what they are going through you are not responsible for them and need to consider the needs of your own children, which you are doing. I hope your brother’s kids get the support they need and that the worry lessens for you.

They won't take the kids into foster care, they're too old and unlikely to settle. They need a long term family support plan but the lack of resources means that's unlikely to happen, there would be pressure to close after 6 months.
It sounds like your doing a great job in a really difficult situation

Another one with perfect children and enjoying a protected life.

Try to get neglected kids to keep a house clean to a high standard in the long run and then talk…

They put 11 year olds into foster care.

It’s not just about money.

However, if you think there are not many cases where SS suddenly declare it a family arrangement rather than a placement and people get no financial (or other) support you’re very wrong. It happens all the time

There are some quite astounding posts here.

Of course if my nieces or nephews needed housing I would take them if I could. But the OP patently can’t, I certainly wouldn’t in her shoes, and all the virtue signalling that she can is simply unhelpful. It is clear would be in the best interest of NOBODY in the family to have this happen.

The SW is trying to bully her because it is much easier, and importantly cheaper, fix for SS for the aunt to step in again than arrange alternatives. And I would bet your bottom dollar she would not be speaking to the OP like this if she were a brother of the neglectful parent rather than a sister in this fact pattern - woman are of course just support humans for crap men.

I think it sounds like you have done over and above for those children so far and you sound like a wonderful person. I wouldn’t take them in your position - that’s a massive responsibility.