To say no to social services re: my niece and nephews...

[mrsneate]

To cut a long story short, this is the fourth time in 9 years social services are involved with my brother and his children.

The first time. I drove 200 miles with no notice to collect Brother and his three kids. They lived with me for 8 months. It was hell. Small 3 bed house, 3 children of my own and my ex husband (we were still married) I supported them all financially, got them into schools, he was then given a council property, the children were taken off the register (on it because of their mum)

Fast forward 3 years, a neighbour reported him for various things. They were put back on the register, my brother worked with them, I supported him.

18 months ago, 2am police knock on my door with my eldest nephew. (16 at this point!) him and dad had gotten into a physical fight, could I take him, of course I said yes, the next day social worker came round, when police had entered their property. It was t fit to live in. Stinking dirty, rubbish everywhere.

Me and my SIL (other brothers wife) went round, and blitzed his house, I did 20 loads of washing, 16 dishwasher cycles. The house was spotless.

They asked me to take all 3. I couldn't, I work full time night shifts and was a single parent, my nephew was with me for 10 weeks with no support from
Social services or my brother financial or otherwise, then my nephew was 17 and could decide he wanted to go home. He went home. Case was closed

This week, I randomly had a phone call from a social worker. There had been an anonymous report from someone that he was leaving the youngest alone for long periods (she's 11) and there was no food in the house. He's drinking all the time, the house is a state.

I only ever see my brother these days when he pops to my house with my niece. She always looks clean.

They told me it's looking like it's going down the route of removing the children (11 and 16?) and would I be in a position to take them in, until he decides to cooperate and work with them, told them no, although I'm no longer single, my fiancé works away for months at a time and I still work night shifts, and still only live in a 3 bed house with 2 of my boys (oldest has moved out) she got really arrogant with me after that. I pointed out they need to stop closing the case, keep them on the register.

But guilt is eating me up, there has been a suggestion they go back to their mother. But that will be a disaster. I have text my brother and offered to help him clean the house. Again, but I am
Pissed off with him, and it's annoying me that he keeps having passes because he's a male single parent! He works school hours and earns good money, he's not skint.

What would you do?

It’s not the only issue, read the thread. Nor is it OPs job to be a skivvy and clean for her lazy, selfish prick of a brother, who can afford a cleaner.

Very easy to say that when it’s an entirely hypothetical situation for you, isn’t it? Very easy to get up on your high horse, declaring that you would sacrifice all to do this amazing deed and you’re just oh so virtuous.

OP, the reality is, it doesn’t matter what other people would do in your situation. Lots of people here will virtue signal and try and make you feel less than because they absolutely would take the kids on no matter the cost to you or your own kids. But they’ve never faced the reality of it and had to make the choice. In all likelihood, they will never have to put their money where their mouth is.

You have done what you can do. It’s not your fault that your brother is a useless parent. It’s not on you to feel guilty that your circumstances won’t allow you to take on these kids. It’s clear that you’ve tried your best to help but it’s your brother that is failing here. Not you.

SS are trying to pass the buck. That’s it. If they can place the kids with you, they can close the case and consider it a job well done. Then the cycle will continue when your brother decides to try and get them back again.

it’s not just the pressure it places in terms of practicalities but what impact is their potential issues going to play on your own kids? You have to put them first and it’s such a sorry situation for all involved really. Poor kids and I hope they get a lovely foster home but it’s not on you to feel responsible or bad for not being able to take this on.

Incredible that the SW deemed it your responsibility to keep your brother in check. He’s an adult. He can take care of himself and should be able to take care of his kids. I know that if it were a woman failing so badly no such remarks would get made to her family members. Seems like even SS like to give men a pass.

I never said it was OP's job to clean up. All of the children need to learn and be supported to learn how to clean up after themselves.

Even 11 is old enough to know how to clean up after herself. If they are never taught this skill then there is every chance history will repeat itself when they have their own homes and children.

I don't know why you are getting the Spanish Inquisition around this. You have been incredibly clear that this wouldn't work for you and your family and it really is that simple. Your niece/nephews are NOT your responsibility. You can continue to have a positive influence in their lives but you don't have the bear the responsibility of caring for them.

A firm no to social work and a reminder to them that you are not their parent

Don't do it OP, you have clearly tried very hard to support to your brother but your priority has to be your own DC. A friend of mine took in her sibling's DC in a similar situation, she had the best of intentions but it has been an absolute disaster ... no financial support, cramped housing, her own DC drifted away as soon as they left full time education (no space, no family life, no attention) ... she is left with the nieces and nephews, police involvement, drug issues, unplanned pregnancies and now caring for DGC ... it sounds harsh but it is an absolute mess and hasn't worked out for anyone .

It's pretty clear you can't look after them. The SW obviously hasnt got a clue and so despite the fact you will feel guilty you can't destroy everyone's lives to support these poor kids. I mean your partner may also have something to say here and may not be happy to accommodate all these extra kids. I think you need to be firm and stop engaging with the SW. It's clear from all your replies it's a non starter

I wish some people would stop piling onto the OP. She’s thought this through and knows it’s an impossible situation and I guess coming here to see if we can come up with any magical solution.

It sounds like there is very little OP can do, but what she can do is if the kids are fostered, by experienced foster parents, who have dealt with and supported youths to process this sort of trauma then she can start playing a bigger role in their lives, being a place for them to come and visit.

The kids need professional help. It’s not down to the OP to allow the state to brush off these kids onto her, there needs to be an element of responsibility to offer them support. Why else do we pay our taxes?

I did wonder whether it would be possible for OP to take ONE child and Brother 2 the other child. But that option sounds just as unviable as either of you taking both.

It sounds like you have done all you can and are simply not in a position to do more. These kids should either have been removed by SS years ago or some plan put in place by SS for ongoing work with/monitoring of the situation.

I think you've shown enormous restraint in the fact your pissant brother is still alive and well and in one piece. I reckon I'd have swung for him by now.

I think it is amazing the help and support you have already offered, and with little back up from social services it seems. Unlike a PP I think it was worth a shot you and SIL completely tidying your brothers house and doing multiple loads of washing - after all, some people do get overwhelmed and you were offering him a fresh start with the house all gleaming and washing done. Very good of you, and for some people that would have been a really positive step and given them a chance to keep the house on a reasonable level going forward. Unfortunately, your brother is not helping himself is he? He seems completely dependent on other people to maintain his house and also to care for his children.

I think you have tried really hard to work with social services but they have failed you and your brother. What you have done is enough. You have been a brilliant support to your brother and his children, but there are limits. If you had space, I would be inclined to try to at least take the 11 year old as she is youngest and potentially most vulnerable. But it doesn't sound like you do have the space.

You have to make a decision and stick to it. Be firm with Social services, and don't let them try to guilt trip you into doing more than you can. Your own children are your first priority - also your relationship, also your very important job. No one can say you haven't tried. Ultimately, social services will have to step in again it seems, and that isn't your fault. You are amazing.

I've been in a similar situation OP and also couldn't take on extra children. SS have to ask family members if they are able to take them before exploring other routes. They will also pursue that route to avoid them having to use their own resources to place them. You are not in a position to take them, you are responsible for three children of your own and do not have the capacity of resources. It really a as simple as that. Your own children will suffer if you do. If you want to support, there are other avenues to do that but cramming six children into your home and giving up the job that supports your family is not the way.

You don't have the room or the time for them let alone what it might mean to your kids.

I think that they should have been taken away years ago tbh.

None of this is your fault.

Social services need to back off.

From the OP obviously- not the situation

OP you have and continue to be a very good aunt , but you have your own children to prioritise.

Reading your updates just clarifies how very broken social services are in this country. The pressure ( attempted bullying) to look after your brothers children is just wrong, especially as no assessment of your family needs has taken place.

No-one has the right to make you feel guilty over this. You have done so much already.

Of course YANBU. You would not pass an assessment as a foster carer for these children because you dont have the space or the time to give them the support they need. The social worker should know that but just ask her if you pass a foster care assessment. When she has to say you wouldnt pass maybe she'll stop trying to guilt trip you. In your place I would not take the children on. I'd try to maintain some contact with them to help ensure whatever social services put in place works.

The sooner you say a very firm no, the sooner the social worker will do their job.

For what it’s worth I think you’ve been amazing. But it’s clear you’d destroy your and your children’s lives if you were to take in the others. Is it possible for the dad to leave the council house and a daily carer to come each morning for breakfast and evening for dinner. Paid for by the council. Then for the free bedroom to be let to a woman looking for no rent in exchange for being there to do the ‘Night Shift’ ?

You have many valid reasons why you can't make this work Op so ignore the SW, they have no right to try and bully you into an unworkable situation. I know several people who agreed to be kinship carers, each one has been let down in some way by the SS in terms of money or support or both. Your DB's children will need a lot of time and help after their poor childhood and you can't provide that and look after your own DC

What a difficult situation. If you don’t have the space, though, then you physically can’t house them.

Yanbu

It's sounds to me like you have got you and your children's life into a good balance after years of struggling. Your ex looks after the boys when you work nights which is great, he isn't going to look after your niece and nephew too.

Your brother is feckless and useless. SS need to step up here. I feel sorry for his kids.

YANBU. In a perfect world, family would always be able to step in. But you don't feel you can, and you're probably right.

If you were looking to adopt or foster a child, your be turned down due to not having space or time to support them. It is only being considered because you're family and you've taken them in before.

The pressure from social services is because friends and family placements are cheaper. They're also generally considered better, as evidence says they lead to better outcomes for the child. However, like all social research, the reality is far more complex than that. Children taken in by family tend to have less complex trauma and fewer needs than those in the care system.

A lot on this thread don't seem to realize that if social services are asking an aunt to take in a child, it's gone beyond "can't you have them for sleepovers and hire a cleaner?" The children are very likely to be removed from their father's inadequate care. Social services are just trying to ascertain where they will go.

Would they pay you foster carer money ? Would that make a difference ?
If you do take them make sure there is a plan for their 18 th.. ie a flat for them etc ..

Social services have been despicable to me and 2 of my friends in separate incidents . I dont trust them at all

If you had the space then I would consider taking the 11 year old. Many 16 year olds would be able to look after themselves so perhaps he could stay if the 11 year old was with you. A friend aged 16 after his parents died with his aunts and uncles cooking him tea a few nights a week. I appreciate that not all are mature enough though.
Ultimately you do have to put your own children first though so don't feel guilty if you can't help. You have tried.

No. That's not how things are done. Can you imagine how damaging that would be to children? And how 1800s of you to expect that a woman can be expected to parent children for free. You can't mitigate neglect with free labour.

As far as I know kinship care doesn't bring much or any financial benefit to the carers, no PR rights and no access to support that would be given to looked-after children.

Which is probably why the social workers are keen for you to do it, since it's cost-free to their budget.

Actually, they need people involved who can parent them as they need, and can get them access to the professional help they need.

It might be 'nice' or 'kind' to keep them in the family but it's not necessarily the best for the children.

OP - I'd say "no" and stick to it. You are not in a position to help.

I worked for SS, and their first idea is to arrange for family members to pick up the slack. It's cheaper, and they can close the case.

Just be firm with them - those children would do best with experienced foster carers. Coupled with contact with their birth family.

Your own life and children come first, but you will need to stand firm on this.

Best wishes 💐