To say no to social services re: my niece and nephews...

[mrsneate]

To cut a long story short, this is the fourth time in 9 years social services are involved with my brother and his children.

The first time. I drove 200 miles with no notice to collect Brother and his three kids. They lived with me for 8 months. It was hell. Small 3 bed house, 3 children of my own and my ex husband (we were still married) I supported them all financially, got them into schools, he was then given a council property, the children were taken off the register (on it because of their mum)

Fast forward 3 years, a neighbour reported him for various things. They were put back on the register, my brother worked with them, I supported him.

18 months ago, 2am police knock on my door with my eldest nephew. (16 at this point!) him and dad had gotten into a physical fight, could I take him, of course I said yes, the next day social worker came round, when police had entered their property. It was t fit to live in. Stinking dirty, rubbish everywhere.

Me and my SIL (other brothers wife) went round, and blitzed his house, I did 20 loads of washing, 16 dishwasher cycles. The house was spotless.

They asked me to take all 3. I couldn't, I work full time night shifts and was a single parent, my nephew was with me for 10 weeks with no support from
Social services or my brother financial or otherwise, then my nephew was 17 and could decide he wanted to go home. He went home. Case was closed

This week, I randomly had a phone call from a social worker. There had been an anonymous report from someone that he was leaving the youngest alone for long periods (she's 11) and there was no food in the house. He's drinking all the time, the house is a state.

I only ever see my brother these days when he pops to my house with my niece. She always looks clean.

They told me it's looking like it's going down the route of removing the children (11 and 16?) and would I be in a position to take them in, until he decides to cooperate and work with them, told them no, although I'm no longer single, my fiancé works away for months at a time and I still work night shifts, and still only live in a 3 bed house with 2 of my boys (oldest has moved out) she got really arrogant with me after that. I pointed out they need to stop closing the case, keep them on the register.

But guilt is eating me up, there has been a suggestion they go back to their mother. But that will be a disaster. I have text my brother and offered to help him clean the house. Again, but I am
Pissed off with him, and it's annoying me that he keeps having passes because he's a male single parent! He works school hours and earns good money, he's not skint.

What would you do?

Try to get neglected kids to keep a house clean to a high standard in the long run and then talk…

This is why I said the older ones need to be supported in learning day-to-day life skills by SS and, if OP is able, with her help too. Otherwise, history is doomed to repeat itself.

I think you have already gone above and beyond being kind and supportive. You have a duty to your own family not to burn yourself out. I'm not entirely convinced that the pp's saying they'd take the kids fully understand what they're expecting you to do. You should not have to lay down your life to redeem your feckless brother.

It is down to social services to manage this sorry situation better than they are now and have historically. Don't let them speak to you badly again, remind them of their own responsibility and they can't just dump that on your shoulders.

I took my nephew's, they were basically through at me.

After reading this, I don’t understand why you are being made out to be the one in the wrong here!
It’s so easy for everyone to say for you to drop shifts, give up work, extend your house into a 6 bed mansion to accommodate your niece and nephews. Real life just doesn’t work like that.
As hard as it is, this is your brothers mess and if he can’t get his act together / or accept help, then perhaps his children need to go into care.
I am sure, in an ideal world (or if you won the lottery) you would live in a bigger house and be home all the time to help everyone out, but you have to function for your family too.
I’m sorry you are dealing with this.

What a shity reply.

you've not got a clue about me and my life, so don't make assumptions !

Without knowing how these things work, OP, I'd say wouldn't the youngest be better off in a foster home? Personally, I'd concentrate what energy and time you have on the children as a caring auntie without taking on more than you can manage and offer absolutely no more help to your brother.

OP,

You sound like an amazing woman.

I would not be having that meeting in your home.

Let the SW facilitate it elsewhere.

You are opening yourself to further bullying and intimidation by them.

Protect yourself.

OP, if the 19yo has mental health problems he can have his own social worker. I'd try to chase this up if you could. My 19yo has mental health issues and has her own social worker. They're brilliant at pointing me in the right direction to find help and support (for myself as well as DD since DD will not actually engage with them).

They might be able to offer him support in keeping on top of the housework. It probably won't be enough to keep the youngest children at home but at least it will prepare him for adult life on his own.

Do 11 year olds girls go to prom?

If you don’t want to or can’t take them then say no. Your brother is the one to blame in this situation, not you. It’s a difficult situation to be in, ultimately if the 11 year old gets taken into care that’s something you and your other brother will have to live with.

I’m late to this thread but I wanted to remind everyone that, under the Children Act, Children's Services must explore care options within the family before taking children into care.
(It is not so much the financial side, because kinship care or private fostering arrangements should be funded. It is because children and young people generally do better if they can stay within the extended family)
Having said that, the SW is wrong and out of order to guilt trip you in this way, by saying they are your responsibility.
You are already clearly a responsible aunt and taking on as much of a supportive role as you are able, given your work and your immediate family.

In my LA, teens were hardly ever able to be fostered. There were simply not enough foster placements, so young children were prioritised. And the point that they are unlikely to settle is well made. Their attachments have been disrupted and they are known to have MH issues, unsurprisingly.

The older ones would most likely be accommodated in a children’s home, or perhaps could go into supported accommodation, if there is any.

It is a very tall order to expect a 19 year old adolescent with significant issues to live with and /or take on responsibility for their younger siblings.
When I was managing our Leaving Care Team, there were frequently battles with younger siblings' social workers, who wanted to place them with their older sibling that we were supporting in their own tiny accommodation. It was always disastrous, and they stopped suggesting it in the end.
Likewise, expecting the older ones to undertake the housekeeping that your brother fails to do is not appropriate.
This whole mess is the responsibility of your brother, and Children's Services need to take appropriate action to safeguard the children's welfare.
Are there no case discussions with all involved agencies scheduled?

If the meeting tomorrow doesn't produce some kind of resolution, I would request a meeting with the Team Leader/Senior Social Worker/Practice Supervisor/ whatever they are designated.
These children should be an open case and on some kind of a plan.

I think you have posted because a small part of you feels guilty - but you really shouldn't feel guilty. You have helped more than many would and still are offering to help - you are just not willing to sacrifice your own children's lives and no one would blame you for that. You know your limits - set your boundaries and stick to them. Over stretching yourself is not good for you or any of the children.

Your job, as a mum, is to put YOUR kids first. Taking in 2 or 3 extra children is NOT AN OPTION for you. Just keep repeating that to the SW who will have to figure out something else - that's HER job. "Unfortunately, that's not an option. I will do x, y and z for niece and nephews." Repeat as necessary. Don't let the SW bully you, that's ridiculous and unprofessional. You have done more than most, and you are entitled to keep your lovely home, your fulfilling job, your well deserved wage etc, etc. You owe yourself to YOUR home & family. That's it

I know this comment will get lost in the hundreds already made, but I just wanted to say how sorry I am for your situation. The story makes me go cold, as we have a family member in the same position but with 2 preschoolers, I can see their story being you neice and nephews' in a few years time. I always quite brazenly said no relative of mine would go into care, but now my family is in the position I would have to let them go. If I took on the children my dc wouldn't be able to go to uni as I wouldnt be able to afford their accommodation fees, my business, which I love would suffer, I would have 2 unruly little ones in a tiny box room currently used as a study, and I would have to start again with raising preschoolers after getting my own dc to relatively independent older teens. The truth is I just don't want any more children. The family have rallied and supported the parent through mistakes, poor judgement, even criminal activity, but we can't keep picking up the pieces. The consequences of their actions (or lack of) will have to be they loose the children, which breaks my heart, but in the long run is probably what is best for the little ones.

While it is very, very sad for the children I don't see how you can take them. What about the impact on your own children (let alone you) it just isn't feasible.
Ss are trying to force you to have them. But you don't have the space time or money. It would be very stressful for all of you and you and your children would end up resenting them. Agree with others ask them to be placed nearby so you can be a constant and positive impact around them. You have been a great aunt and given lots of support already so ss shouldn't make you feel bad for that at all. Ss should take the strain now with you supporting from the side.

You reply is equally shitty (pretty much like “let them eat cake”)
yet you have a better idea of the OP circumstances and those of these neglected children are as she has specified them in her posts.

Can you just take the 11 yo? The 16 yo is in a better position to care for themselves, I’d have thought?

But I agree they need to stop closing the case

This.

You need care, too - and if you become ill or exhausted, that will help no-one.

Look after yourself, my dear. You have done a lot and it's time to draw a line under it.

My heart aches for those children - but none of us can save all of the world and you've done your best.

It's clear you're very involved and giving OP. But there are limits to everything. I feel very sorry for all involved except the parents.

I was asked to take in my young cousin a few years ago. His mum was a drug addict and he saw some awful things in his life. Family members used to have to post food through the letterbox at times. Social Services were more than aware but nothing was ever done. When she died I was on the list of people to take him in and I really wanted to but I couldn't. He was 12 at this point and had mental health problems, I lived in a tiny back to back (1.5 bedrooms basically), kitchen in the living room, very small, with a young daughter. They made me feel horrendous for not taking him. He eventually got a place in foster care and the last I heard he was doing really well! He's 16 now, he's done his gcse's and wants to work in social care himself. This is an awful situation for those kids but foster care isn't always a horrible story. I hope they all get the help they need but you're doing nothing wrong by saying no. You have gone above an beyond for the children and for your brother and you have very serious, legitimate reasons for not being able to take them in this time.

Aw OP, what a terribly sad and tragic state of affairs. The poor kids... they don't deserve this. And they are your blood family, so of course you would like to try and help keep them safe and nurtured if you can.

However it's not fair for SS simply to come knocking at your door whenever there's a crisis, then close the case when things improve slightly. And now try and throw the kids at you. It's a rollercoaster and simply not sustainable.

Can you speak to a more senior person about getting yourself, them and your brother around a table and work out a longer term support plan for him and his kids, so that they can stay with him, and he's supported to keep on top of parenting duties? Rather than waiting til it gets to crisis point?

Your brother and social services are both reliant on you picking up the pieces. I think it’s time to stop, if SS need to pay for foster care then maybe they will think more carefully about returning the children to their father and the support they need to provide.

I'm sorry you're in this situation too. It's horrible. When I first took them all in they were 2, 7 and 10 and my own children were 3, 7 and 12. I had six children and three adults in a three bedroom Ed terraced house. That lasted for nearly ten months until they could house my brother.. so I know it won't be short term

It eats me up. But he has done this

I can't believe they said this that is totally unacceptable and horrible. Really sorry you're dealing with this OP

I personally would cut off your brother, never contact him again, never help him again. It's enabling his mess by this point and he will never change. He's an adult he needs to sort out his own shit.

I would personally take the 11 year old, and wouldn't the 16 year old be eligible for their own accommodation? (Not sure).

I'm not minimising how hugely this would put you out, you've done so much already, but at the same time it might completely change the 11 year olds life to finally have some stability. But I can see it's not an easy situation all round.

Your brother holds down a job and earns well, so he's clearly capable.

So long as you (and SIL) keep supporting his kids, cleaning his house, satisfying SW so he doesn't have to

A) your brother will stay lazy feckless drunk and never bother to change
B) SW will keep pestering you to do their job so they don't have to.

Stop enabling your brother to neglect and abuse his children.
Stop enabling Social Work to turn a blind eye to Bro neglecting and abusing his children. They need to step up and do their job.

(SW) got really arrogant with me

Tell her to read the case history. She probably hasn't bothered.