To think most men are degenerate if you dig down

[dontshootthefruit]

That's it really. Could be pmt but...

I'm not sure MN helps change my mind, and yes, I know people don't post their happy stories.

My own experiences, that of most of my friends, the women on here. It's endless. I know there are some guys that are nicer than others. I know some that I consider good friends. I still wonder, deep deep down if they're all degenerate when it comes to sex.

Porn, prostitution, rough sex, casual assaults, etc. I listened to womens hour today discussing a new BBC doc about the widespread groping on the tube in Japan. What's most shocking to me is the fact they have sex clubs there that allow men to pay to replicate that kind of sexual assault (clubs decked out like train carriages full of prostitutes that appear to resist as part of the fun). Thing is, it's not a fringe activity, it's a "thing". I totally despair. I try to be positive, I have a partner, I have a daughter that's growing up fas, but push comes to shove... wouldn't trust one man that deeply when their sexuality calls.

Shoot me.😀

No pole, but YANBU

I wish every woman would just get the Female Dating Strategy Handbook at age 14 or so. FemaleDatingStrategy a dead Reddit subreddit, but the handbook is still linked

Yes. I honesty think it's just the impact of testosterone and most of them pretend.

I think many men struggle to see women as autonomous human beings and not just sex recepticals.

And when they can distinguish women it falls into the Madonna/Whore complex.

I don't really think so, no.

I would say that most people have degenerate or basic impulses at times, and have the capacity for degeneracy. Men are probably more inclined to certain types of sexual degeneracy than women. And our culture, in an effort to be "sex positive" backs away from a lot of the kinds of cultural practices that might help people keep degenerate urges under wraps.

I don’t really know what you want people to say.

My DH is kind, caring and lovely including between the sheets. He’d be repulsed by most of the things you’ve mentioned.

He was pretty sheltered growing up if that makes a difference.

I think porn has an awful lot of answer for, re normalising sex that is pretty much assault. The times did a good piece on it recently in their podcast.

I think on a societal level you are absolutely right, sure some individual men aren't like that but it is a huge problem generally and the fact that some men are decent (on the surface at least) doesn't change that.

Sadly I agree. There is almost always something a man would do / say that is misogynistic- on a spectrum of course, and some hide it better than others.

How can people who think like you bear to have sons?

@dontshootthefruit I'm afraid I agree. The patriarchy, the porn industry, the relationship modelling most boys get from their dads and -oh god-I hate to say this- the many women who enable men to carry on being crap. All add up to a shit situation.

Because love gives you the ability to not see such traits in your offspring I think.

While individual men might be lovely, as a collective they can be degenerate. The majority of sexual attacks are carried out by men, the majority of domestic violence, the majority of assaults, the majority of murders.

I agree with PP that violent porn has an impact as do "influencers" like Andrew Tate.

I agree.

I agree with you.

I worked for 15 years in a company that had a metal factory. The difference between the office guys and the factory guys was there, but also the similarities. Out of the 150 men I've known and worked with for 40 hours a week for years, I'd say 2 were not 'degenerates' (They were very religious though and didn't watch porn, drink, have sex outside marriage etc)

The rest of them drank, smoked, did drugs, misogynistic comments toward the female staff, porn etc. The obsession for the vast majority was football, fishing, fighting and sex.

I dislike men these days.

There definitely seems to be a lot of awful men out there that see women as something for them to use and abuse. It’s really fucking depressing.

I do have a male partner that is the most decent person I’ve ever met, but on the whole, the men I’ve known are shit, my father and brother included.

The question really should be do those of us with sons teach them to not behave like this?

Do you think your DH is like that. Or your DF or DS.

I think it's pretty sad that most men do not behave like that but it is automatically assumed they do. I have 3 sons who have been taught right from wrong, are all respectful to their various partners (afaik), but none of it will be good enough for them to be trusted.

I work in a very predominately male environment, some of the things I have heard and (unfortunately) seen are absolutely abhorrent. A lot of them have wonderful wives and children and definitely play the family man part very well when they're home. Again, this isn't all men, but it includes men you wouldn't typically associate with this kind of thing. You never really know everything about someone, you just know what they're like around you and the part of their life they either choose to share or get shared against their will ie hearing stuff from others.

Well, if it is most men I must be very lucky as my experience has been that it’s very much the minority, thankfully. Birds of a feather flock together so perhaps if you know men like this you’re likely to know lots of them.

I have two sons and I make sure that I role model good habits and equality with them. For example:

• DH and I are never, ever violent with one another either verbally or physically. When we do disagree we talk it out, the talk might get heated but we do it without shouting or swearing at each other

• Chores are shared equally, there is no such thing as "that's mums job" or "dad does that". They're just as likely to see me doing DIY as they are to see DH doing laundry (and they're expected to help)

• DC are all held to the same standards as each other, the boys and the girls

• I talk to my older DC about things like porn, healthy relationships, peer pressure, making choices that are non-violent, walking away, etc

• I have robust filters on our home WiFi and their internet-connected devices so that porn and other adult content cannot be accessed. I talk to them about what to do if they do see these things online

I can love my sons at the same time as thinking that men as a class are problematic. That doesn't mean all men but it's enough of them that I want better for my children and so I try my best to give the tools they need to not be a part of that problem - toxic masculinity harms boys and men too

I have robust filters on our home WiFi and their internet-connected devices so that porn and other adult content cannot be accessed. I talk to them about what to do if they do see these things online

Ah bless you.

My view is that it isn't all men, but it is a sizeable minority and that one shitty man will impact the lives of a significant number of women around them. So even if it is only 10% of men of each one of them impacts 5 different women that is 50% of women affected by their shitty behaviour.

In the workplace I think a key issue to tackle is the passive acceptance by decent men of shitty behaviour by some of their peers. They need to know that they are causing harm to women by doing this.

Haha no?

I'm under no illusions that they will look at porn at some point, I work in education so I know the statistics, but I also know that my children have been taught online safety since they were old enough to hold an iPad and I've keep an open, non-judgemental dialogue with them.

It's not about completely shielding them, it's about giving them the ability to form their own judgements about what they're viewing to think critically about it, whether it's realistic, whether it's harmful, etc.

Personally I don’t feel inclined to mock someone who is clearly doing her best to raise her kids in the right way. If there were more like her we’d all be better off.