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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

Original poster

To think most men are degenerate if you dig down

363 replies

dontshootthefruit · 09/06/2023 17:16

That's it really. Could be pmt but...

I'm not sure MN helps change my mind, and yes, I know people don't post their happy stories.

My own experiences, that of most of my friends, the women on here. It's endless. I know there are some guys that are nicer than others. I know some that I consider good friends. I still wonder, deep deep down if they're all degenerate when it comes to sex.

Porn, prostitution, rough sex, casual assaults, etc. I listened to womens hour today discussing a new BBC doc about the widespread groping on the tube in Japan. What's most shocking to me is the fact they have sex clubs there that allow men to pay to replicate that kind of sexual assault (clubs decked out like train carriages full of prostitutes that appear to resist as part of the fun). Thing is, it's not a fringe activity, it's a "thing". I totally despair. I try to be positive, I have a partner, I have a daughter that's growing up fas, but push comes to shove... wouldn't trust one man that deeply when their sexuality calls.

Shoot me.😀

OP posts:
CurlewKate · 10/06/2023 14:48

I wrote a thing a while ago about what men can do if they really want to support women and defeat toxic masculinity.

1.Take full responsibility for their fair share of domestic work and childcare.

  1. Challenge sexist/ misogynist/violent talk and behaviour every time they see it and wherever they see it
  2. Stop using prostituted women.
  3. Challenge sexist work practices-for example making sure that any panel, board or committee they are on at least represents the sex balance of the organization - if necessary refusing to go on it if it isn't.
  4. Stop watching porn.
  5. Stop buying and playing sexist video games, and films that don't pass the Bedschel test.
7)Think about how they parent their boys, and remember that they are the next generation of men. And that they are the man their children will learn by about relationships from. 8) Make sure that they acknowledge, and let their children see them acknowledge, the contribution their wife or partner makes to the family. This is particularly important when she is a SAHP
deathbyhayfever · 10/06/2023 15:31

Every woman knows someone who has been raped.

I don't know anyone who has been raped?
I don't think any of my friends knows anyone either.

It happens too often, but again, a bit of an exaggeration to say it happens to everyone, or to most women.

CampCroc · 10/06/2023 15:53

I’m pleased that’s the case for you.
Past threads here and in other places sadly show that’s not the norm. Similar to threads where women are asked the age when men start to stare at them - iirc the average age is 10-11.

deathbyhayfever · 10/06/2023 16:09

CampCroc · 10/06/2023 15:53

I’m pleased that’s the case for you.
Past threads here and in other places sadly show that’s not the norm. Similar to threads where women are asked the age when men start to stare at them - iirc the average age is 10-11.

threads about rape are more likely to attract victims of the rape, they can be anonymous as well.

It doesn't mean it's "the norm". I am glad it's not!

QueefQueen80s · 10/06/2023 18:22

CampCroc · 10/06/2023 15:53

I’m pleased that’s the case for you.
Past threads here and in other places sadly show that’s not the norm. Similar to threads where women are asked the age when men start to stare at them - iirc the average age is 10-11.

Most beeps I got from lorries and vans was age 12 onwards 🤢

Catchasingmewithspiders · 10/06/2023 20:24

QueefQueen80s · 10/06/2023 18:22

Most beeps I got from lorries and vans was age 12 onwards 🤢

Show quote history

Men in cars with kids in the back in the same school uniform as me, from when I was 12 for me

Original poster
dontshootthefruit · 16/06/2023 11:10

YoucancallmeKAREN · 09/06/2023 20:00

Having spent 20 years with the Military and having known 1000s of blokes, i can assure you they can put on a great front. They can play the happily married loving Dad but the minute they have a chance to cheat, they do. I only know less than a handful that haven't. Even the one that sent his wife flowers every week and took her away at least once every couple of months cheated so many times. Very few are keepers.

This is true. It really is. A handful. When it comes to sex. Any man that travels and has the opportunity will take it. In my opinion.

OP posts:
Original poster
dontshootthefruit · 16/06/2023 11:11

VinoVeritas1 · 09/06/2023 20:01

Men are primed by nature to seek out sex. It’s very powerful programming. Similarly, women are programmed to follow maternal urges & produce/look after babies. As a species, we have spent the vast majority of our time on this planet in a primitive state and the few years of civilisation are not many in comparison. Nature has not caught up to our modern sensibilities. We all are governed by our primal urges to procreate and raise/protect our offspring.

Dunno what the answer is though

So should we or could we ever trust a man. I agree to some extent that it's a drive. I think the "nice" ones are trying to overcome instinct. But I think dig down the instinct to cheat, shag indiscriminately, porn, pay for sex... is what they would like to do.

Some just resist it to play the game.

OP posts:
Original poster
dontshootthefruit · 16/06/2023 11:13

onefinemess · 09/06/2023 20:10

No wonder young men are so damaged.

The posts on here are vile.

Shows how utterly toxic some women can be.

Hilarious

OP posts:
kavalkada · 16/06/2023 11:19

When I read threads like these I think majority of Mumsnetters will not be happy till a law is passed that requires all male children should be aborted. Why have them if 99 per cent of them turn into despicable piece of shit no woman is ever safe with.

ALongHardWinter · 16/06/2023 11:20

I agree. And I also think that women who are of the opinion that it is a tiny minority of men who are like this are deluded.

CampCroc · 16/06/2023 11:32

kavalkada · 16/06/2023 11:19

When I read threads like these I think majority of Mumsnetters will not be happy till a law is passed that requires all male children should be aborted. Why have them if 99 per cent of them turn into despicable piece of shit no woman is ever safe with.

I don’t think you’re reading them properly then.

Whilst there are women in the world that would happily do without men (until they are extinct), no one here has suggested that at all.

What has been suggested is that men need to do better. Defending each other, and relying on women to do the mental heavy lifting has led us to a place where many women are jaded and have had enough.
The mere suggestion that men need to step up - pulling other men up for degenerate behaviour, never accepting rape jokes, sexist jokes, sexist behaviour, equalising the mental load, not being the secondary parent by default, pulling their weight in the home - sends out a bat signal for NAMALTers to hone in and point out that NAMALT - we know that, but we also know that MMALT in some way, hence the problem society and women have with the behaviour from many men.

85000 women report being raped every year in the UK. Actual numbers are likely to be higher as many women don’t report. That’s not a tiny handful of men. The numbers indicate a problem, and it’s not going to go away until men and their dutiful fans stop dismissing it, making excuses, and blaming the women who point out these issues.

Have a good look at the rules of misogyny. So many of them being played out on this thread.

To think most men are degenerate if you dig down
ContinuousProcrastination · 16/06/2023 11:34

Honestly, i think a lot of why religions evolved around the globe with a lot of behavioural rules around sex & women was basically as a result of the need to control the sexual urges a lot of men struggle to limit without external boundaries. Because fundamentally, society is a better, calmer, more productive place with those controls in place. This is simplistic as if course those same religions often subjugated women in other ways, but nonetheless, many damaging or extreme behaviours were reined in and marked as utterly unacceptable.

We are at a tipping point now whether the deistic aspect of most organised religions isn't believable alongside modern science & knowledge, and society needs to ensure we retain some elements of other boundaries and restrictions on behaviour that many religions included, in other ways.

OhmygodDont · 16/06/2023 11:46

I don’t hate men or boys. I have a husband and a son.

However you work in a place that’s 80% men and it’s filth honestly. The open sharing of porn, judging of any of the female staff on how much you’d bang her or nice body bad face blah blah blah. All have a ball and chain at home etc.

All these men bring their wife’s and children to family or evening events hosted by work. Butter wouldn’t melt when they are at those. Telling John how lucky he is to have susie and their wondeful kiddies as they are all so lovely knowing his trying to or is bang/ing Claire in the office.

So would I like to believe my husband and son are good ones? Of course I would and do.

But I see the dutiful yet teenage son and the dutiful husband. I don’t see them at work/school or any of that.

Are we as women also really saying the words we may speak or share with our closest female
friends or family members are exactly how we would talk infront of our husbands/men or even children. Or hell that we don’t share differently even between women friends and women family members.

Because that’s what you are saying all the good men are doing is that they only have one face when we all know that’s no true of anyone.

Thelnebriati · 16/06/2023 12:18

ContinuousProcrastination
''Honestly, i think a lot of why religions evolved around the globe with a lot of behavioural rules around sex & women was basically as a result of the need to control the sexual urges a lot of men struggle to limit without external boundaries. Because fundamentally, society is a better, calmer, more productive place with those controls in place.''

I had exactly this conversation with friends only a few days ago.
Men claim to have built civilisation; but then you look at how the internet is working out. Its always lacked the boundaries and guidelines other societies started off with, and its turned into a crime ridden pornfest within a decade or so.

coxesorangepippin · 16/06/2023 13:20

Its always lacked the boundaries and guidelines other societies started off with

^

This. Why aren't men stepping up and saying, just a second, all this extreme pornography is detrimental to society, we need to stop it??

The reason is because it's men that consume it!!

SallyWD · 16/06/2023 13:40

OhmygodDont · 16/06/2023 11:46

I don’t hate men or boys. I have a husband and a son.

However you work in a place that’s 80% men and it’s filth honestly. The open sharing of porn, judging of any of the female staff on how much you’d bang her or nice body bad face blah blah blah. All have a ball and chain at home etc.

All these men bring their wife’s and children to family or evening events hosted by work. Butter wouldn’t melt when they are at those. Telling John how lucky he is to have susie and their wondeful kiddies as they are all so lovely knowing his trying to or is bang/ing Claire in the office.

So would I like to believe my husband and son are good ones? Of course I would and do.

But I see the dutiful yet teenage son and the dutiful husband. I don’t see them at work/school or any of that.

Are we as women also really saying the words we may speak or share with our closest female
friends or family members are exactly how we would talk infront of our husbands/men or even children. Or hell that we don’t share differently even between women friends and women family members.

Because that’s what you are saying all the good men are doing is that they only have one face when we all know that’s no true of anyone.

Of course many men appear to be perfect husband at home but get to work and start trying to shag their colleagues - or at least talk about wanting to shag their colleagues. We all know men like that.
But it's simply not true to say all men are like that. I've worked with loads of men who do not speak about women like this, who don't join in the laddish behaviour. I've seen men try to change the subject when the conversation turns to filth.

Pearlsaminga · 16/06/2023 13:47

ContinuousProcrastination · 16/06/2023 11:34

Honestly, i think a lot of why religions evolved around the globe with a lot of behavioural rules around sex & women was basically as a result of the need to control the sexual urges a lot of men struggle to limit without external boundaries. Because fundamentally, society is a better, calmer, more productive place with those controls in place. This is simplistic as if course those same religions often subjugated women in other ways, but nonetheless, many damaging or extreme behaviours were reined in and marked as utterly unacceptable.

We are at a tipping point now whether the deistic aspect of most organised religions isn't believable alongside modern science & knowledge, and society needs to ensure we retain some elements of other boundaries and restrictions on behaviour that many religions included, in other ways.

I agree with this, and I would say that the sex drive is part of the wider drive to dominate and possess which needs to be controlled otherwise it is highly destructive.
If men are given free reign to do as they please they turn bad very easily, yes women can also turn bad but not so readily.

Pearlsaminga · 16/06/2023 18:04

I think we all could potentially become degenerate, the question is more how many layers are there to be stripped away before that's all that is left.

3BSHKATS · 16/06/2023 18:04

My own darling father got his arse felt at the bar when he was a young man and had to go upstairs and shower himself, because he felt so dirty upon being touched in such a manner. By another male. And then proceeded to tell me years later about how if you couldn’t slap your secretaries arse, what’s the world coming to? It’s only a bit of fun.
every man I have ever met in my life, has cheated. I’ve done reverse image Search on men on Tinder and found them smiling with their families on Facebook. One guy, I actually met in a bar, had a bit of a kiss and a fumble with in his car. Literally the next day imagine my surprise when I’m walking around the supermarket and there he is with his wife and two children. He at least had the decency to look embarrassed.

chupachucks · 16/06/2023 18:08

SummerDawn2000 · 09/06/2023 20:51

‘Good men’ need to sort their house out.

Men need to be accountable for their own sex class and it’s degeneracy.

women can’t do it. We’ve tried for decades. Other men harm other men. Male violence is an epidemic for both sexes

Men sort it out.

Sorry by both my DH and young DS are currently home working hard on a project to bring a lot of joy to some very disadvantaged kids in the community.

Should they stop that and go patroling the streets for bad men 🤣

Statistically there more at risk of being murdered and assaulted than women. If it was that easy do you think they would do it.

You sound like the echooooooo chamber of MN typical man haters.

Thesharkradar · 16/06/2023 18:22

Statistically there more at risk of being murdered and assaulted than women. If it was that easy do you think they would do it
yes by men, men pose a risk to other men as well as to women, they kill each other and they kill women, always the men doing all the bad things

chupachucks · 16/06/2023 18:38

Thesharkradar · 16/06/2023 18:22

Statistically there more at risk of being murdered and assaulted than women. If it was that easy do you think they would do it
yes by men, men pose a risk to other men as well as to women, they kill each other and they kill women, always the men doing all the bad things

Oh and women don't, what a well thought out reply 😜

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