Parents unite to tell children they can’t have a smartphone until secondary school.

[NeedToThinkOfOne]

Here’s the story:
https://www.irishtimes.com/ireland/education/2023/05/26/greystones-parents-agree-to-no-smartphone-code-for-children-until-second-level/

AIBU to think we should all be doing this, with ALL primary schools having a no phones policy to enable more groups of parents to unite within their communities?

Personally, I’d like that to apply at secondary school too until 16, but I realise that ship has sailed for this current generation.

I understand a phone for contact re safety for older pupils getting home or whatever, so I can see the need for a basic phone for calls only, particularly for rural school pupils. The real issues impacting children’s mental health are driven by social media, so it’s not just about the device obviously, but banning phone usage once on school premises for all secondary pupils would be a step in the right direction and with no peer pressure to have one at a younger primary school age, it could really make a difference?

I heard about this on Woman's Hour and thought it was such a great idea. My children are older now and I would have hated it if they'd had access to mobiles back then.

Do you have children at secondary school @NeedToThinkOfOne? My kids' school sends updates via email and teams. They organise their social lives over the phone.

Banning isn't the answer.

My eleven year old has a talk and text phone only. The deal is she can get a smart phone when she can pay for it. Our reasoning is pretty much what you said.

Accessing social media or using apps on a smartphone during school hours is very different to school admin which can be done via a laptop or a basic phone 🤷‍♀️

Out of interest how old are your dc op?

I don't particularly agree I'm afraid. My son is 15 and had a smartphone in year 6. It was very useful as he started walking home. Yes he could have had a basic phone but he used WhatsApp too to communicate with friends.

Perhaps I was very lucky but I had very few problems. I checked his phone daily and it was all very innocent on the whole.

Yeah maybe for primary school kids I agree. Banning them up until 16 isn't the answer though. The world revolves around technology, there's no point trying to shield teenagers from it.

Clear boundaries and open communication work better.

Every school I've been involved with (3 primaries, 3 secondaries) has had a no mobiles visible in school policy.
I dont think people should regulate how phones are used outside of school.
I'm not aware of a school that allows anything more that "phones off and at the bottom of your bag". Some primaries have a "phones handed into the school office".
What is this hoping to achieve? Phones in schools? Totally agree.
Phones when kids are at the park? With a separated parent? I don't think there is a one size fits all for that.

Smartphones are part of life now. We can't go back.

I think that there is an argument there for children getting used to managing one before the real difficult teenage years come by.

It's far easier to manage an 11/12 year old than it is a 15/16 year old. Year 6 are much more likely to listen to you and communicate any problems they are having.

I feel like this debate has got very polarised. It's not a case of hand over the smart phone and hold your hands up and say I now have no control, parental controls are so sophisticated. My DD (yr 6) has a smart phone but no social media, has to ask permission to download apps, has time limits on certain apps and down time from a certain time each evening. She basically uses it to chat to her friends and play games (which we monitor with her knowledge from time to time).

I'm Mean Mum at the moment as I don't let my 10yo have WhatsApp.

Her sister did have it at 10... she just had a few contacts on there from before we moved house. During Yr7 however she has more friends on there, but choses to stay away from big group chats.

However 10yos class has major problems with bullying etc which has spread to online. I'm just trying to keep her out of it.

I agree in principle.

But practically it's not workable.

Here is what happened to us:

Both made redundant from jobs that allowed one of us to be at home for school drop off/ pick up.
Sadly been made redundant (thanks covid-19) and new jobs didn't allow this.
So DC then in 5nd half of y5 had to get themselves to / fro school on a regular basis. As no suitable childcare available on a regular basis.

Phone was essential in order to check if DC made it to school/ home plus an essential tool for emergencies.

I don't think we can lay the whole of the adolescent mental health crisis at the door of smartphones.

They've had 2 years of intermittent lockdowns, busier, higher pressured lives than any generation before them, the knowledge that when they grow up they will struggle to find somewhere to live- oh, and previous generations have totally fucked the climate for them to have to deal with.

Plus, there's greater awareness of MH issues (while at the same time, no resources to treat them).In my days unhappy teens just got dismissed and ignored.

Smartphones are the avocado toast of Gen Z, IMO 🙄

(saying that, I didn't let my son have a phone until secondary either)

A separate issue, but I mean banning smartphones until 16. You’d need to buy a licence for social media apps, so a parent would have to buy that for them and be responsible for any outcomes under 16. As it stands, apps are free and have no legal age limits, so if you have a smartphone at any age you can access them.

If phones were banned (no use at lunchtime or breaks/inbetween lessons) or other pupils didn’t even have one, that would all help.

I dont agree with banning them, my daughter got a phone age 10 so she could have some freedom to meet friends after school or walk home alone. (Year 6 but summer born)

We have clear boundaries in place, time limits, no whole class or large WhatsApp groups. She has to ask before installing any apps. We talk frequently about online safety and how once things are out there, they are there forever. I dont allow tick toc or Snapchat for that reason. My eldest is 14, has the above but doesn't post on there and has no other forms of social media.

I think what needs to be done, is parents need to be more proactive in educating our children with online safety, the same way we would any other life skill. The trouble is people get more lax with parenting the older their children get, thinking they are independent. They still need our help, guidance and boundaries in place until they reach adulthood.

My DCs walked to and from primary school in Y6 so had non-smart phones for safety. They had to be handed in to the school office.
At secondary both schools phones had to be off and in their lockers during lessons unless teachers instructed otherwise. They did use them in lessons sometimes so were needed.
Smartphones were really useful for getting to/from school when public transport wasn't working and they needed access to Google maps, bus apps, train apps etc.
Children should be taught to use them properly and monitored closely, not banned

I think what needs to be done, is parents need to be more proactive in educating our children with online safety, the same way we would any other life skill.

I agree, I oftn think people want a ban as that's the easy way out. It's much harder to educate and put boundaries in place, but the results from this are far more effective than an outright ban.

I didn’t want mine to have a smartphone.
unfortunately the secondary school had other ideas, not only did they need to be smart phones they needed to be fairly new for all the apps they were expected to run.

My DCs are teens now, but when they were primary school aged it was usual to give them a brick phone when they got to age 9 and typically were travelling to school and/or playing out without an adult. I still think this is as sensible idea (and a replacement for phone boxes which basically no longer exists, before someone asks why they need a phone at all). So I think a distinction should be made between dumb and smartphones.

I wouldn't think a primary school ban would help anyway - it's surely use out of school that is the problem?

At secondary school level, I think there are a lot of benefits to having a phone in school for learning purposes, so I would not want a blanket ban.

Phone was essential in order to check if DC made it to school/ home plus an essential tool for emergencies.

Agree with this, but only for older pupils, not needed throughout primary and for year 6 a basic one is all that’s needed, so they go on to secondary without the desire to have a smartphone (to access apps)

i have to approve any apps mine wants to install. It pings on my iPhone.

Our local grammars have very strict rules around phones not being seen, some travel long distances to get there (great schools) do understandable they might be wanted for the journey.
Smart phones are definitely not necessary for primary aged children

This! Kids can have as many theoretical PHSE discussions as we like about this stuff but it's only when they start experiencing it for themselves that it hits home. I'm glad my DD has had the chance to navigate this with tween level issues and fallings out rather than when she's older. In an ideal world no she wouldn't have a smart phone but that's not the world we live in.

You haven't answered my question - how old are your children @NeedToThinkOfOne?

And no, a basic brick phone cannot access emails or Microsoft teams.

My kids are in y7 they have had a phone since y6. They had old ipods for imessage in y4/5. Their primary school was phones in a box in the office and only y6. Secondary if the phone is seen or heard at school (unless been told to use it in class) it is confiscated until a parent comes to collect it and a detention.

The school uses Satchel One and Gateway, not having access to that would be detrimental. Banning isn't the way forward, teaching sensible use is.

Yes I get what you're saying. Social media is just part of life now though so an outright ban until 16 isn't preparing kids for that part of life.

Educating them properly and teaching safety and taking parental responsibility for their use of it is a better approach imo.

That's not to say I don't have concerns about kids and social media use because I do. I'm just not sure banning is the answer.

With regards to phone use at school, phones are already banned in our primary school.