Parents unite to tell children they can’t have a smartphone until secondary school.

[NeedToThinkOfOne]

Here’s the story:
https://www.irishtimes.com/ireland/education/2023/05/26/greystones-parents-agree-to-no-smartphone-code-for-children-until-second-level/

AIBU to think we should all be doing this, with ALL primary schools having a no phones policy to enable more groups of parents to unite within their communities?

Personally, I’d like that to apply at secondary school too until 16, but I realise that ship has sailed for this current generation.

I understand a phone for contact re safety for older pupils getting home or whatever, so I can see the need for a basic phone for calls only, particularly for rural school pupils. The real issues impacting children’s mental health are driven by social media, so it’s not just about the device obviously, but banning phone usage once on school premises for all secondary pupils would be a step in the right direction and with no peer pressure to have one at a younger primary school age, it could really make a difference?

I wouldn't worry about others attempted policing about who can and can't have an opinion- and there are always some! As you say- it's all speculation and they have no idea of your lived experience! In a discussion you should address the argument, not the person- especially when you know nothing about them :)

You might change your mind if you had a diabetic teen who needs one so he knows when his blood sugars are too high or low
He's currently doing his GCSE,s and has been pulled out of several exams as his phone triggered by his Dexcom,has alerted him his blood sugars were to low and he needed to have some orange juice/ jelly babies
It's also very reassuring for me knowing it will alert what night ,if they go to high or low.

I think a lot of people commenting here have not read the article. The school or anybody else are not banning smartphones, parents are voluntarily signing up to a pact not to give their child a smart phone while they are still in primary school. Kids in Ireland are in primary school until 12/13 so most start secondary school at 13. The point here is that if a critical mass of parents don't get their children smart phones in primary you are reducing the peer pressure. There are always going to be a few kids that need access to one for various reasons, many of which have been given here, and that's fine but if the majority in a class don't have one it won't be the focus of their social interactions and they can remain kids for that bit longer. I know we all have smart phones and the world has moved on but I personally feel a reset is needed and we need to seriously look at what our kids (however much we monitor them) are getting access to before they are developmentally ready to understand or navigate it.

I personally have 3 kids (15,13,10) and my older ones did not get a phone until they started secondary and their world did not fall apart waiting for one.

The genie is out of the bottle with regards to smart phones for better or for worse. We've agreed that DD will get one when she starts walking home from school and going to her friends house, for safety reasons. She'll be getting an iPhone so I can add her to my account and keep a close eye on things, no social media, no phones in rooms over night, we'll be doing checks, she doesn't let us check it gets replaced with a brick. My main thing is that she's contactable.

I'll also be drumming it into her, on top of online safety and everything that you should only ever give your number to those who you want to have it and just because someone asks for it doesn't mean you have to give it. I also will tell her not to hand out someone else's number either unless they've said it's ok to do so, I've always viewed my number as something private that I choose to give or not to give out and I want DD to view it that way too. Same with friends requests, message requests, etc she's in control and she doesn't have to have contact with anyone who would misuse the privilege. Basically that No is a perfectly acceptable answer. Obviously you can't control others and ultimately it will be her decision but I'm hoping the message will get through. She's only 6 so a few years yet.

This is absolutely the best use of technology @x2boys I have a relative with a condition supported by an app, so I’m fully supportive of advancements in technology for medical purposes.

Yes! I've been saying this for years. Haven't RTFT but totally agree with no phones until secondary school.

I'm such a Luddite, I'm really crap at technological solutions like remotely controlling DS1's phone. So I have simple rules like no phone upstairs, end of. That means that whatever he's looking at on his phone is usually done on the sofa in the living room, with me looking over his shoulder every now and then. Also, I pay for a cheap plan with a measly amount of data, so he can usually only go online somewhere there's WiFi- which also means mostly at home .

I also check his phone regularly to make sure he hasn't reinstalled forbidden apps (Snapchat and Tiktok- have you seen some of the suggested videos that pop up on Tiktok? It all looks really unhealthy!)

I let him have Instagram- how is he going to maintain the cats' Insta accounts otherwise?! 😆 But I follow him on it. He shares some really nice photos actually.

I was regularly reading his WhatsApps, but I've pulled back from that a bit now he's Y8. Should have another look soon really.

To be fair that can happen. Also depends where you have the parental controls set, and I appreciate not every parent works in IT or knows people who do to circumvent this.

I would like to hope teens using VPNs are probably the exception and not the majority of children though

My kid got a phone at 8, same age I did back in the 90s... it's a safety device.

My kid is now a teen and cares not one job about his smartphone, I actually get irratated that he constantly forgets it when he is suppose to have it (although hypocritical as Im not far off the same, I hate the damn thing too many unnecessary features).

Kids become obsessed with things that are withheld from them... its forbidden fruit and has the OPPOSITE effect of what you want.

Secondary in Ireland is till 13, here it's 11. I think 11 is too young for a smartphone but sadly I hear about children being routinely bullied for not having the best smartphones etc at our local schools. So we have a choice of getting our DC one or them being bullied. This is when an agreement like this would be useful. I don't want my DC to have a smartphone yet. He has ADHD so want to avoid anything detrimental to his attention levels and I think will struggle to regulate use.

@NeedToThinkOfOne totally agree.

Parents don’t seem to see phones and social media very often lead to all the mental health problems todays kids have. You all know if you got your kids who are being bullied, have issues about their looks, get stressed over squabbles and gossip, get involved in sending or receiving dodgy stuff off their smart phones and enforced sensible rules e.g. no phones after 9 pm they wouldn’t have so many mental health issues. Do your job and take the tough decisions parents.

I was very strict (and very unpopular with other parents as a result “they’ll never be invited to parties”, “how will they have friendships” blah blah) and my kids are fine, one uses what’s app now and the other avoids everything. They are age 19 and 17 so hopefully my opinion counts @Clymene ! And shock horror they love me and we have a great open relationship. The older one has even managed to get a girlfriend without using Snapchat or Insta or TikTok etc etc.

The guys who profit from these apps are usually complete slimeballs, if you educate your kids on this it might shift their perspective. The decent guys in tech (still mainly men) usually put their hands up and say my kids don’t have a smart phone are you kidding. 😂

DS1 's school has also banned the appearance of phones from arrival on the school premises to departure. In general, I think this is a good policy, but they do need to tweak it a bit, given that the little sods are prone to deciding whether to attend after school clubs or not on any given day with zero notice, and the buses leave promptly at 3.30 (we're rural), so we do need to know whether to drop everything and drive the 40 minute round trip to pick them up or not!

My DC grew up (in Ireland as it happens) with lots of local cousins, just before smartphones came on the scene.

As an extended family we made the decision that none of the children would be allowed phones until they started secondary school.

It worked very well for us and in the age of smartphones I think it's an even better idea now.

As a teacher I think it's fairly shocking that so many people are saying schools are relying on parents to buy technology so their children can take part in lessons.

It's quite poor practice to do that.

What do they do for the children whose parents choose not to buy a smartphone, who don't allow their child to take a smart phone to school, or who can't afford one? Do they exclude those children from the lesson (not appropriate), or do they expect other children to share their personal devices (also not appropriate)? Do other parents get informed that school are expecting their child to share their personal devices?

All the schools I've worked in have either had a 1-1 device program where school provide long term rentals for those who choose not to buy (and also support families financially as well), or they have a class set of tablets/chrome books which staff can book when they need them, or they have no devices at all in lessons.

Things such as Satchel one, Teams and other platforms can be accessed through browsers on a range of devices and don't require a smart phone.

The mental health crisis started well before the pandemic!

A common scenario here...

Parents are letting their children out to play as long as they take their phone so they can track and contact them.
Child uses the phone to take photos upsetting another child...
Or drops it...
Or loses it...
Or isn't looking where they are going due to staring at it and doesn't notice cars etc...

The phones are causing problems. Meanwhile the ones without phones are playing a massive game if hide and seek, or building dens in the woods... or just having fun.

I am in 100% agreement with the article. My children didn't get phones until secondary.

I'm not in agreement with no phones until 16 which the OP has suggested is a good idea.

We're just having the debate now as DC1 is approaching 11 which seems to be the "magic age"

DP says he'd ban all our kids from ever having phones if he could. I'm a bit more liberal and appreciate that not having a mobile is probably not an option, especially once DC1 is at secondary school.

I think we'll try with a brick to begin with. Calls and and texts only. If this even exists anymore?

I'm actually not too worried about DC1. He is sensible, has no real interest in having a phone and knows very little about SM (he does play PS4 but not online and has access to YouTube on a shared device so he's not totally unaffected by modern living)

My DC2 however, feck I'm dreading the day she "needs" a mobile phone.

my ds is currently 11, going to secondary in September and isn’t getting a phone til the summer break. I completely agree there’s no need for children below secondary age to need a phone.

My child's phone is linked to mine. I have to ok all her app downloads and I won't ok any social media or harmful games that are all about shallow female body image

Maybe at year 5 introduce simple phones with no cameras as they get more independent and start getting ready for secondary school.

the issue where we live is that there are NO payphones anywhere. So not having a phone inhibits independence. A nokia brick was the solution for us.

Things such as Satchel one, Teams and other platforms can be accessed through browsers on a range of devices and don't require a smart phone.

Great post @LolaSmiles and the other points you make are exactly what I’ve said in my previous posts. When things do unravel, no doubt it’ll be the teachers that are blamed for misuse in the classroom. I’m not a teacher, but would fully support anyone in education who is struggling to manage the impact of social media on learning and the welfare of young people.

As a primary school teacher, there's no way my yr5 child is having a phone. Just yesterday I had the pleasure of reading messages, clearly sent from a pedophile, to a child the same age. Every week without fail we have to deal with fallouts, that have happened over WhatsApp, and spilled over into school. This starts with children as young as 7 & 8 years old!

There is nothing to be gained to exposing your young children to smartphones. But it's easier to say 'yes' and expect schools to deal with it.

I have a 10yo desperate for a phone, the answer will continue to be 'no' until at least year 7.

I think the pact (or even a ban!) is a wonderful idea and would keep to many children safe. It's not just about your child, but children as a whole.

I'm not in agreement with no phones until 16 which the OP has suggested is a good idea.

To be clear, I haven’t suggested that at all. I don’t personally believe that apps and social media should be available to under 16 without licence- You can only get apps and a browser for accessing social on smart devices- so the same way cigarettes, alcohol are under control by age and licence, which wasn’t always the way and of course, people still get these things underage.

See the OP article, the schools are not suggesting banning phones (no am I) or keeping young people off technology that supports learning.