Parents unite to tell children they can’t have a smartphone until secondary school.

[NeedToThinkOfOne]

Here’s the story:
https://www.irishtimes.com/ireland/education/2023/05/26/greystones-parents-agree-to-no-smartphone-code-for-children-until-second-level/

AIBU to think we should all be doing this, with ALL primary schools having a no phones policy to enable more groups of parents to unite within their communities?

Personally, I’d like that to apply at secondary school too until 16, but I realise that ship has sailed for this current generation.

I understand a phone for contact re safety for older pupils getting home or whatever, so I can see the need for a basic phone for calls only, particularly for rural school pupils. The real issues impacting children’s mental health are driven by social media, so it’s not just about the device obviously, but banning phone usage once on school premises for all secondary pupils would be a step in the right direction and with no peer pressure to have one at a younger primary school age, it could really make a difference?

I haven't rtft but can tell you that teachers would be fully supportive.

They all have phones in Year 6 and we get nothing but grief about it - WhatsApp chats with inappropriate conversations, dodgy sm posts, online bullying. It's exhausting. If we gently suggest a child doesn't need a phone we get told (by parents) that it's practically a human right nowadays. Do we want their child to be murdered on the 5 min walk home because they don't have a phone? Or to be ostracised?

Ridiculous and creeping in younger and younger.

@Barnella thanks for that article.

@NeedToThinkOfOne

As a PP said, it’s time for a reset. Shouldn’t that include age-restrictions, or better guidance for parents?

But there already are age restrictions and guidance for parents. You can't make people follow them.

Like I say, parent your own - hypothetical? - children.

Mine had them when they were 11 - which for them was just before secondary.

They were heavily monitored for several years - and were taught dangers about on-line.

TBH the secondary school approach has been odd- sometime expecting them to have phone and be able to access apps other times going on anti phone crack downs.

I wouldn't like bas to 16 -GCSE being over then due to young in year ages and being in Wales - and there are good apps - seneca duolingo, tassomai they can sit and do.

Also like to know if and when they will be late.

Not so keen on them in primary school - but then my kids had simple home lives and stable routines - some kids are juggling complex home situations - being at different houses/people different days. Can't see why they couldn't be left in bags during school time at very least.

Read the article and it’s not something I would be joining in with. We plan to give DS a smart phone when he starts year 6.

Great post @LolaSmiles and the other points you make are exactly what I’ve said in my previous posts. When things do unravel, no doubt it’ll be the teachers that are blamed for misuse in the classroom. I’m not a teacher, but would fully support anyone in education who is struggling to manage the impact of social media on learning and the welfare of young people.
It quickly unravels using personal devices in class.

Obviously there's risks to using school devices or any individual device but they can be mitigated or have the risk assessed at school policy level with sign off from senior staff

If there's no school policy saying "we expect all children to have a smart phone to access lessons" then there's a lot of issues:

• singling out pupils who don't have smart phones for whatever reason
• giving preferential access to the lesson based on who has a personal device from home
• accessibility issues e.g have all these teachers who are using a range of apps and expecting pupils to bring smart phones from home ensured everything is accessible to a range of SEND requirements?
• students who need a phone because they walk home or have a late enrichment could burn through their battery using their phone in lesson instead of what the parents gave it to them for
• is the lesson properly resourced with alternatives that are comparable? If it can be resourced appropriately without using personal smart phones then why use smart phones as that's actively introducing exclusion
• in the event personal mobile phones are damaged in lesson, who is responsible for the damage?
• is the school providing a WiFi connection or are they expecting children to burn through their personal contract data allowance to engage with education? Why should those with bigger data allowances have data for their social life, whilst those with limited allowances use it up in lessons so they don't stand out? Is that really fair for staff to expect that/have staff even thought about that?
• do staff insist students share their devices? If they do, who is liable for any damages that happen? Is it reasonable to place a student in a situation where they may feel unable to voice discomfort with this request? Would students be sanctioned for refusing to follow instructions in the event they refrain from giving other students access to their phone?

If my DC ever came home saying a teacher made inclusive participation in a lesson dependent on me proving a smart phone, I'd be asking school to explain how all the above are addressed and where in their policies they state that a child should be obviously excluded from lesson content based on their parents' decision on personal devices

Our schools recently provided chromebooks to every pupil

Within about 2 days they'd all broken the security settings and fully enabled themselves full access to everything

Not letting them have smartphones wont stop them accessing the internet.

The key thing is to teach them to do it safely and to know how to get help when it goes wrong

Do you know what I didnt even think of that.

I do the same, check if the train is cancelled, or use a loyalty app for coffee or something like that.

It would feel unreasonable to say to a teenager that they couldn't have access to something that when it just the way the world works now.

It's a balance isn't it. The thinking among the parents in DC's school (myself included) is that it's better the DC have phones in primary and learn how to use them responsibly whilst we know the families. If there are any issues, the parents can speak to each other and help sort it out. Once they go to secondary, we won't have any contact with classmates parents so figure all these things will be more complicated. DC are also starting to travel alone on the bus into the next town.

That was my take on it, I thought it was a good idea. DD(11) won't give her number out, she only has her best friend on and doesn't want any classmates on. She can add contacts, but contacts are limited to family on downtime (7pm-7am), can't install apps by herself and has no games apart from a times table one. Also allowed websites only. No phone in bedroom after eating, I take it in when I go to bed as she uses it for an alarm.

I was talking to a government cyber security person they said most school hacks and risks come from inside the school

Honesty we've wonder about most of this the years.

However only time I've approached the school was during one of the last lockdowns when a teacher insisted they download an app - it turned into quite a saga and ended up with DH and I - while supposed to be working ourselves - being technical support not just to DD2 by via teams and phone to her friends -some at home alone - all who seemed very upset- making me wonder what the teacher had said to them. So I got in touch - they just blamed the kids wouldn't engage with anything else.

We've since had contact with a variety of IT issues - they don't have the expertise - and often haven't thought though any of the problems or developed a consistent approach - and we've found questioning anything isn't welcome.

I spoke to a counsellor the other day, she deals with children of all ages up to the age of 18. She told me she estimates 2/3rds of the children/young adults she sees have issues that can be traced back to or are made worse by having access to a mobile phone. She advised me to hold off for as long as humanely possible before giving our kids phones.

Our eldest is 9 and a few of her friends have started getting phones already and she has asked once or twice when she can have one. I’ve told her aged 11 at the absolute earliest but now I’m thinking even longer.

I wouldn’t sign up for this. DD in Y6 walks too and from school so she has a phone. She also does a lot of sport and is often early/late back from matches and when she does her athletics sessions, entry to the track is via an app on her phone. Homework is set online and she uses her phone to check what is due in and when. She also has her bank card on her phone. We’ve had no issues with phone use.

It's not the phone itself though is it, it's what apps etc they use and who is on them .

My daughter moves between my house and her dad's house so we let her have a phone aged 8. But she only has a few games on it and the ability to message her family (parents, step parents, siblings, aunty) .

She has a busy life full of hobbies and prefers doing art or maths (I know, both my children do maths for fun the little weirdos) to screen time anyway.

So it's not the device that's the issue here, and for some children they can be a really positive thing

Exactly.

And to make sure they have some decent hobbies and activities to get them away from screen time..

Smart phones are a fantastic invention in many ways but so are cars and we don’t have 8 year olds out there driving.

Parents are giving smart phones to their kids too young (because it’s easier than making a stand) and more importantly are allowing them on multiple social media apps unsupervised.

🙄 if only I was presenting a hypothetical parenting situation…sadly, it’s all too real.

Age restrictions in the very small print and very much a don’t blame us approach from all the providers. So maybe I’m looking for regulations, rather than restrictions? As I said earlier, I’m not in any way telling people how to parent, who would attempt that on here? I’m not that brave. 🤣

Yes, this is one of the points from the schools involved in this agreement. Nobody is suggesting we ban phones. It’s good to hear that some parents are having meetings about this- can I ask if this is something your school have encouraged or did you arrange independently? I’d be interested in this locally.

can I ask if this is something your school have encouraged or did you arrange independently?

It's a parent led thing. We're having a class meeting about it tonight. It's directly prompted by the Greystones example. I live in Dublin and its airways had a lot of press attention here.

I know of parents in two other schools having the same conversations with class parents - it's gathering a bit of momentum.

It's the Christmas of y6 for us so the DCs have a couple of terms within primary school. That's on the late end of the school's culture

DS1 is in y7 and has my old phone. He needs the smart function to be able to use the bus. It also means that he can use the payment and Satchel One away from home. He's very introverted so isn't bothered about communicating with other people. Being able to zone out with youtube has saved us from some overwhelm meltdowns that were brewing by refocussing on something soothing and shutting out overwhelming sensory input.

DS2 is y5 and walks a short distance home. He can ring me from the landline at home and has been known to do so. If he took a phone to school, he should hand it in to reception anyway. He knows that it will be around Christmas and he's ok with that. He's already one of the last in the class and some have had phones for years. It is already becoming an impediment to his social contact outside school. The other technical problem is gaming platforms and connectivity.

Would I love to avoid all the potential problems that come with smart phones and would bans be an easy way to do it? Yes. But in the real world they also come with benefits and there are guarenteed problems by isolating children from cultural norms too. So it's a best-fit approach between my ideals, and the practicalities of the real world. To me, during the year before transition to secondary school is a practical stage to introduce them, with boundaries and support ready for them to be used. Y6 is also a sweet spot at starting to develop independence, but still being quite open with parental relationships and supervision. Leave it too late and teenagers can often go much more private.

It's much harder to lie in bed under the covers with a chromebook than a smartphone.

It is much harder to sit at the dinner or restaurant table with a chromebook than a smartphone.

And yes they need to be taught internet safety.

You police your dc and I'll police mine. My dc both had smartphones in primary. I keep them locked down. They get access under supervision from me only for e.g. pokemon go, WhatsApp family members. It was mainly a games device. They didn't take them into school. When ds1 needed one for walking to school he got an old non-smart phone.

I agree it should be law that certain apps are not to be used by under 16s and making the app owners e.g. Meta liable if they are used by children.

I understand why people want this, but I was bullied at school and my phone was the only way of communicating with my mum who helped me... it was a lifeline.

I almost agree. Mine definitely didn't need a phone until secondary, when he suddenly definitely did need it (so much of the homework is set to be done online, he has a significant journey home, so he does most of it on the school bus). And a phone's expensive, so it made sense that he got it for his birthday in Year 6, in preparation for starting for Year 7.

However, I'm a teacher myself, and we don't HAVE to set so much work online. It definitely can be very beneficial to the kids' learning, but not enough so to risk their mental health for. I know a lot of parents feel pressured into getting their kid a phone before they really wanted to because they needed a digital device for school.