Parents unite to tell children they can’t have a smartphone until secondary school.

[NeedToThinkOfOne]

Here’s the story:
https://www.irishtimes.com/ireland/education/2023/05/26/greystones-parents-agree-to-no-smartphone-code-for-children-until-second-level/

AIBU to think we should all be doing this, with ALL primary schools having a no phones policy to enable more groups of parents to unite within their communities?

Personally, I’d like that to apply at secondary school too until 16, but I realise that ship has sailed for this current generation.

I understand a phone for contact re safety for older pupils getting home or whatever, so I can see the need for a basic phone for calls only, particularly for rural school pupils. The real issues impacting children’s mental health are driven by social media, so it’s not just about the device obviously, but banning phone usage once on school premises for all secondary pupils would be a step in the right direction and with no peer pressure to have one at a younger primary school age, it could really make a difference?

I totally agree that no phone is needed in primary.

Here’s a report based on 30,000 children that links earlier age of first smart phone use with worse mental health. https://sapienlabs.org/wp-content/uploads/2023/05/Sapien-Labs-Age-of-First-Smartphone-and-Mental-Wellbeing-Outcomes.pdf

Not all children go to primary and secondary. It’s the norm for middle school children to walk to school from year 5.

Kids don't need phones before secondary school. Mine got them when they started secondary but the school has a strict 'no visible phones' policy. If it's seen, they get confiscated.

for year 6 a basic one is all that’s needed, so they go on to secondary without the desire to have a smartphone (to access apps)

This doesn't work. Plenty of children have no phone at all for primary school, it doesn't stop them wanting a smatphone when they're in secondary school.

Many posters on here grew with up without smartphones at all, and they still desire them as adults. 🤷🏻‍♀️

My son didn't get a phone until he started year 7. I was amazed at the amount of children in primary who had phones very young. They did have to be handed to the teacher during the school day though, and were returned at home time.

Personally I find my 13 year old having a smartphone very necessary for detection of his location since starting secondary. I try not to call him on his journey home from school as I don't want to encourage him having his phone in his hand whilst walking etc but it puts me at ease being able to see where he is. I also use the parental settings so he is unable to download apps without a notification being sent to my phone asking my permission, so he does not have social media. His phone is also set to lock at a certain time in the evening (and he does not have the passcode) so I don't have concerns about him being on his phone when he is supposed to be sleeping. This parental setting also allows me to distantly lock his phone, so there is no risk of him being on it whilst in class. But I do totally understand all the other issues that come up with children/teens and smartphones.

I think this is awful for so many reasons, but particularly for affordability issues. Schools should provide tablets to run learning apps.

We gave DD a very old Samsung in Yr 6 but installed Family Link so we can track usage. We had a good talk about rules + boundaries eg she has to hand over the phone wherlnever we ask so we can check it, she isn't allowed certain Apps such as TikTok/snapchat/Facebook.
Now at secondary school the school make the kids hand in their phones at morning register to the housemistress and then they are handed back at the end of every day.
It isn't about banning them, it is about teaching them how to use responsibly and that can't happen until they have one.
DD never exceeds her data/call/text limit, half the time she doesn't even charge it!

I agree about no phones needed whilst in primary school, but don't forget children from split families who can now face call the other parent, children who take themselves to and from school, tracker aps to alert you one they arrive in or leave school etc etc. Once they get to senior school they need smart phones for learning aps as such as Duo Lingo and Century. Not all schools have laps tops or I Pads to issue to the children, so their own smart phones are essential. Parents just need to be a bit more savy. We had a loose ish no phones upstairs rules until they were 14, and the philosophy that we as parents owned the phones and the dc had the use of them, so we were allowed full access if we needed it.

Locally, the children with phones from a young age (aged 8+) tend to come from poorer backgrounds.

No idea why or the correlation though...

Not a chance. My kids use their phones for sone school work, emails, homework.

At secondary school they use their phones in some lessons.Like cahoot quizzes

Or how about you parent your children, and I parent mine?

Parents shouldn't be so reliant on others to make the rules and decisions for them.

The real issues impacting children’s mental health are driven by social media

That's one element. I think, for my children at least, the failing education system has a far, far bigger and lasting impact on their mental health.

I think this is awful for so many reasons, but particularly for affordability issues. Schools should provide tablets to run learning apps who pays? The schools can't always. We live in a digital world and are creating a gap in our dc's education if we don't allow them use of a smart phone. It doesn't have to be a fancy I Phone this, or Samsung that, mine just had cheap second hand Motorolas when they first had mobiles.

Thanks @ParticularlySmall
Exposure at a young age to apps, along with added peer pressure for a particular device (rather than a basic phone for contact) is exactly what the parents and schools in that community in Ireland are trying to prevent.

i tried pushing back and was told they can use computer suites at break or lunch.

however, in practice these are locked so you have to find a teacher to supervise it.

it’s yet another stigma for those that can’t afford it.

we also had to buy a laptop at either £15 a month or £300. Despite all the covid purchased laptops being fine just not the schools required spec (which I get) . If your pupil premium you can borrow one - read as queue up everyday to get one, and drop it back (so you don’t even get the benefit to do your homework on).

Not true, my daughters secondary school seems everything to them via teams and use apps like cahoot etc in class and encourage they use their phones to access it in class

I think that kids having a smartphone in year 6 is beneficial for the following reasons:

• lets them get used to the nuances of communicating via text - better that they learn this with people they have grown up with rather than new year 7's.
• any issues on the class chat are easier to deal with when you know everyones parents and backgrounds - we would all check the kids phones and then communicate within the parents to talk about silly language etc.
• the novelty of having a phone is over by the time they go to secondary school.

I think most parents have the following rules in place - or at least all 3 of my kids friends also seemd to have the same

• locked down so apps etc need a parental code to download
• parents knew code for phone
• phones locked down so cant be used after a certain time
• phones kept downstairs at night
• parents randomly read texts and messages to ensure no bullying etc

Mine are all in secondary school now so I dont check thier phones but we do know thier codes, icloud log in is family connected etc. We also all have track my iphone active so we can see each other locations - handy when DS lost his in a field!

I dont think kids younger than year 6 need a phone though.

ours HAD to have newish phones for the specific apps to run.

I don’t disagree with you, but I also don’t think it’s fair that disadvantaged kids are yet again being left behind.

Some of my friends and I were having a similar discussion recently and said it really helps when you have friends and your children have friends from families who have similar values. We feel the same about unsupervised internet access in our house.

It blows my mind how often I hear some parents seem to shrug their shoulders and say "but everyone else has it and my child will be left out". I don't like the idea of parenting being a rush to the bottom so everyone gets dragged to the standard of the permissive parents. The "what can you do everyone else does" is one of the lines I hear the most from parents when I'm dealing with yet another issue caused by kids and smart phones. I feel like saying "maybe not have handed your 9 year old a smart phone and maybe not allow your 11 year old 24/7 unlimited access to the internet ".

My oldest is Y7 and this is his first year having a phone (long bus journey). My youngest two won't get one until Y7 either.

No child NEEDS a phone before this age. They might WANT one, but certainly don't NEED one. It's called parenting and saying no.

I'm a teacher, and spent a lot of time teaching my tutor group about social media and online safety. When one group were in Y9 I spent an hour looking up the entire tutor group online (Instagram, Facebook etc...) then any "dodgy" photos I found I put them into a PowerPoint and showed the entire class!

They were horrified and accused me of hacking their accounts! I made it clear that I hadn't even logged into my own social media, and everything I found was in public domain for the entire world to see, including potential employers! I made it clear some images were beyond inappropriate for me to even put on the screen! I also showed screenshots of those I found who sensibly had their accounts locked to public so I could find nothing but a sensible profile pic.

I said I'd be looking again in a week and was hoping that I would find a lot less of them. They listened, and after a month every single one of them had their profiles set to private.

We are never going to ban phones, but we can at least educate them to use them sensibly.

I don't agree

It's essential now now for secondary school for homework, updates,teams,
Kahoot! etc

My primary school gets the bus to
And from school so needs a phone and has some useful Dyslexia apps on it.

The ship has sailed.

Exactly the same with ours. Everything’s an app that only runs on new operating systems, even the school parent communication is an app - which I can’t run.

There's a balance to be had.

DS10 has got a phone. He uses it to call his friends and play games.

It's locked down. He can't add apps without my permission. All social media sites and all adult sites are blocked, including YouTube, Tiktok etc. He's not allowed it at night in his room. We will make gradual changes as he gets older and becomes more responsible.