To think latent Islamaphobia is as prevalent as ever

[Lesschubtolove]

This is based from several posts I’ve now seen in MN, about burquinis, wearing the hijab, in fact anything vaguely Muslim related on MN and in print media as well as the real world.

Most comments from posters on MN are fairly neutral but there are a fair number that then state some pretty (pulls yikes face) comments, especially about women’s clothing or integration. There also seem to be a lot of misconceptions about what Muslims actually believe.

It seems to me as though yes most people won’t come out and say that they dislike Muslims or think they are stupid, backwards, oppressed (insert adjective here) but the disdain comes out in more subtle ways.

im genuinely quite surprised at the misconceptions I read on MN, but I guess they must apply to real life too, but just that people don’t wish to voice them.

ps I am a Muslim myself. I did an ama a while back

Fully agree, there was a thread yesterday about hijabs and I didn't read it as I knew it would get nasty vicious posters on it.

I think what irks me is that those people are very concerned about Muslim women, especially what they wear that even when they insist they are dressing a certain way out of choice, are so concerned they don’t believe them

I am not a Muslim but I completely agree with you.

I think I know which post prompted you to write this - on the headscarf thread yesterday? I almost couldn’t believe what I was reading, I reported it but haven’t returned to see whether it was deleted or not. But yes, I agree.

There is a world of difference between criticizing the religion of Islam and its practises and discriminating against Muslims. Islam, like any other religion, is open to criticism and ridicule just the same as Judaism, Christianity etc.

I didn't read the thread yesterday. I think most online concern amounts to concern trolling rather than genuine concern - like health concern for fat people, or safeguarding concern for women wearing hijabs. It's BS because they don't really care about those things, they only care that they don't want to see them - they just don't want to admit it!

Saying that I don't see anything wrong with someone saying they don't like religious headscarves because they're against organised religion, or because it doesn't gel with their own views on feminism; that seems like fair comment to me. I may not agree with them, but at least those views aren't based on prejudice towards the people wearing them, it's just criticism about the institutions.

I am an ardent atheist and as such I will defend someone's right to practice their religion, I oppose all claims for religious privilege, such as closing down criticism or censorship/so called blasphemy.

As someone who was born and raised as a Muslim and now an atheist, having a disdain for the hijab and what it represents is not Islamophobia. During Islam, besides “modesty” the veil was a symbol to distinguish female slaves from free women. There are teenagers living in the West who are afraid to remove their Hijab because of backlash from their parents and the wider community; they associate their bodies with shame and that it their responsibility to keep the male gaze away.

I don’t really see many who advocate for censorship based on blasphemy though?

quranically it’s to draw a distinction between believing and non believing women.

There are women who are afraid to remove the scarf, but there are women who are also fighting to wear it (France, Turkey etc)

I’m not concerned, to each their own, but it’s amazing how many non Muslims do not choose to cover their heads and faces if it is merely down to choice.

Because it doesn’t form a) part of their larger belief system or b) cultural practice? I’m not sure what you’re trying to prove here.

As your own post mentions, it's usually based on ignorance and inexperience.

Just as some MN posters naively ignorant of mental illness, medicine, finance, property purchase, dog ownership and child care, regularly display their stupidity and lack of education /experience on MN.

I believe that the covering of women required by Islam is about patriarchal control of women’s bodies and as such I dislike it. I do believe that many women choose it for themselves but this doesn’t make it less about patriarchal oppression. I think women should be allowed to make the choice to wear it and the state-sponsored attempts to repress it are not helpful, but I’d like to see Islam move towards a state where it is not required. I don’t think that’s likely though as Islam is more firmly rooted in the scriptures than Christianity.

Yes. Because enslaving the latter is / was "quranically" acceptable.

See this!

you believe that it is about Patriarchal control, despite how many might tell you it’s not, in some places it is but the overall concept is not.

so you think that Islam should change to be more ‘cuddly’ but you think it’s unlikely based on how rooted in scripture it is. The Muslim world was at the centre of debate and innovation and progressive change for hundreds of years. Being rooted in scripture isn’t the problem

Gross oversimplification and sort of proving my point of my OP

“O Prophet! Ask your wives, daughters, and believing women to draw their cloaks over their bodies. In this way it is more likely that they will be recognized as virtuous and not be harassed. And Allah is All-Forgiving, Most Merciful.” Quran 33:59

Non Muslims and slave women are therefore not virtuous and are open to harassment. Muslim female slaves who wanted to veil were rebuked for impersonating free women.

I am uncomfortable with the requirement that women dress modestly while men need not. I'm then uncomfortable around men who consider the way I dress to be immodest. And I'm a frumpily dressed middle aged woman, not a glamour puss.

I'm not uncomfortable with anyone's religious beliefs, just with some cultural expressions of them.

That is one translation to virtuous, the others I have seen is ‘as believing women’

To be honest I think the world as a whole is horribly misogynistic and oppressive of women. All religions are in some way. I will not be pro covering a woman and resent the idea that it’s completely a woman’s own idea to wear it.

Men do need to dress modestly islamically, it just has different criteria

Its interesting you equate 'not liking women having to cover up' with 'Islamophobia'. I don't like any religion that requires women to cover their hair, especially under the guise of preventing sexual assault. I don't think any system should be beyond criticism and its not phobic to say that.

I fully agree and I think it's entirely due to the negative press stories about Muslims. Muslims are often portrayed as terrorists, extremists or at best extremely easily offended and demanding e.g. We have to say festive season instead of Christmas so we don't offend Muslims. Or we can't fly the union jack because it offends Muslims. This is all absolute nonsense!! It makes me so angry and I can't understand why the media deliberately tries to stir up hatred against Muslims. It's so damaging.
We live in an area with many Muslims. Our friends and colleagues are Muslim. I don't want to generalise but I can say the Muslims I know are kind and generous people. They fully respect all other religions and repeatedly reach out to the wider community. They try to live a good life, helping others. Several Muslims I know give up their time to work at food banks and homeless shelters.
It sickens me that there are so many gullible people who happily believe whatever they read I'm the Daily Mail, Express, The Sun etc.

While some of this may be from ignorance of different cultures, the hypocrisy of what we see in the UK does not help - women must stay at home, veiled, have arranged marriages or whatever, while other women wearing what they like are looked down on, while men do what they like (and of course the grooming gangs in recent news).