To think latent Islamaphobia is as prevalent as ever

[Lesschubtolove]

This is based from several posts I’ve now seen in MN, about burquinis, wearing the hijab, in fact anything vaguely Muslim related on MN and in print media as well as the real world.

Most comments from posters on MN are fairly neutral but there are a fair number that then state some pretty (pulls yikes face) comments, especially about women’s clothing or integration. There also seem to be a lot of misconceptions about what Muslims actually believe.

It seems to me as though yes most people won’t come out and say that they dislike Muslims or think they are stupid, backwards, oppressed (insert adjective here) but the disdain comes out in more subtle ways.

im genuinely quite surprised at the misconceptions I read on MN, but I guess they must apply to real life too, but just that people don’t wish to voice them.

ps I am a Muslim myself. I did an ama a while back

Has anyone said that?

Is Islam becoming more Liberal re: homosexuality? It was a genuine question but you seemed to have ignored it.

I don't understand why you are saying this isn't true. The pp didn't say the Church of England did this, but there are many other denominations across the U.K.! Some are more liberal with regard to homosexuality, and some will be less.

With regard to criticism isn't there at least a strand of Islam (along with other religions) that reacts badly to criticism? If for instance you have a debate around head scarves then it shouldn't be shut down (and it hasn't ) by a claim of Islamaphobia simply by raising the subject. I think it would actually assist in combating Islamaphobia if their were more honest critical debate about culture/religion without fear of reprisal or accusations of prejudice.

It is possible that subjects like Islamaphobia can only be discussed in an anonymous environment as people would fear raising such subjects openly in real life. I think there is a fear of criticising Islam in particular as reactions by some (a small minority) have been extreme.

But it is a literal trend, any shift in social roles is a trend. It is a pattern of behaviour. Christianity developed in the Roman culture which consciously adapted to multiple influences, whilst pursuing what was best for the elite. Christianity managed to align itself with the ruling elite by doing just that

I don't think anyone suggested Islam should be "held above" other religions. I mean, it absolutely isn't - just look at this thread! 😂

Asserting that being religious is a choice isn't really the full picture. Some religions believe in inherited identity - if you have a Jewish mother, you are automatically considered Jewish, for example. So it's not as simple as that. Anyway why shouldn't choice be protected? It wasn't that long ago when people said "fine if you're gay (and can't help it) but why do you have to choose to get married?" - as an argument against allowing same sex marriage.

And it's not just the dislike of religion that makes a belief "phobic" - it's when you consciously or subconsciously believe that those who adhere to that religion are less than, don't deserve respect, are fair game for derision or exclusion. And that really is an exceedingly common attitude towards Muslims.

Islam doesn’t need a modernist movement, we just need to remember our roots.

but there huge feminist movements, Amina wudud being one. There’s also a huge academic focus, and a lot of converts in academia, Myriam cerrah, Laura McDonald, ingrid Mattson and the deen institute being a few

Freedom to critique religion (in a civil, non-violent, non-bullying way) is a fundamental aspect of a democratic society.

The comment I replied to did say that.

but there are small movements in Islam that are more lgbtq friendly. A lot of the homophobia in present day Islam has come from colonialism, yes textually there has always been the concept that acting on homosexual desires is sinful, but colonialism ramped this up. The Ottoman Empire decriminalised homosexuality in 1858 nearly 100 years before the Uk.

Freedom to critique religion is a fundamental aspect of a democratic society.

Was King Charles Islamaphobic in terms of having a Christian coronation. Are we making other religions lesser by singing the national anthem in that it mentions a Christian God to the exclusion of Islam? I think prejudice, hatred and discrimination are wrong but we have to be careful we don't extend decisions of 'phobias' to artificially change predominant cultures. Religion should be respected but that respect does not extended to not allowing valid criticism.

@Lesschubtolove

lGBQT Muslim groups aren't that prevalent in the middle east. lGBQT Islam can only realistically exist in more secular cultures where those rights are supported by law.

Funnily enough though they do exist as a subculture (how gay is Pakistan for instance)

like I said upthread the Ottoman Empire decriminalised homosexuality in 1858 and that was commonly viewed as a caliphate

In Afghanistan, the senior male Afghan officers had groups of young boys that (harem) that would follow them/spend time with them.

I am just a bit sick of Muslims saying - it's ok, we are friendly modern type of Muslims - we are different to the other types. Which is essentially what the OP is saying.

The Muslim community needs to take a bit of ownership of the awful behaviour of other Muslims to stamp it out. But they just throw up excuses as to why those Muslims are different.

I can't stand any religion though. So 🤷‍♀️

Erm no… but the Christian god is the Muslim god

This is the problem and this is the prejudice I’m talking about. I live in England, how do you expect me to stamp out paedophila in Afghanistan?

Muslim leaders all over the world condemn extremism and misogyny and abuse as a perversion of the religion as do Muslims here and in the west and all over the world

Why can’t it be modernised?

When did this occur because my father in law was a officer at highest government level in Afghanistan and never heard of this.

If you're talking about widespread bache baazi that's another matter.

There is a widespread peadophile problem in this country regarding English men

Well what needs to be?

giving to charity? Prayer? Fasting?

we aren’t meant to change anything in the religion to suit our desires

@Lesschubtolove

That is a really interesting point. Is the Christian God, Allah and also God of the Jewish people? It certainly end a lot of religious strife if people accepted that!

I think yours is a sensible view and technically accurate as all three religions have the same routes. However how many Muslims have this view? I recently argued the same point to an Islamic advocate in town arguing the Jewish God and Allah were the same and the Torah had the same basis as the Islamic holy text. The advocate could not put a reasonable theological argument against this but seemed offended by looking at merging Judaism and Islam.

do News and Mulsims respect each other's religions given their God is the same?

Sorry Jews

OP, do you believe that non Muslims are going to burn in hell?

There a lot and people really think they are justified in it and can't see what's wrong with it. Its awful