To think latent Islamaphobia is as prevalent as ever

[Lesschubtolove]

This is based from several posts I’ve now seen in MN, about burquinis, wearing the hijab, in fact anything vaguely Muslim related on MN and in print media as well as the real world.

Most comments from posters on MN are fairly neutral but there are a fair number that then state some pretty (pulls yikes face) comments, especially about women’s clothing or integration. There also seem to be a lot of misconceptions about what Muslims actually believe.

It seems to me as though yes most people won’t come out and say that they dislike Muslims or think they are stupid, backwards, oppressed (insert adjective here) but the disdain comes out in more subtle ways.

im genuinely quite surprised at the misconceptions I read on MN, but I guess they must apply to real life too, but just that people don’t wish to voice them.

ps I am a Muslim myself. I did an ama a while back

Well I have been told that ‘revert’ is used because we are all Muslim ‘underneath’ or originally and when we accept that we return to god …. Which is extremely offensive to me and shows that Muslims are basically brainwashed and refuse to acknowledge any value in or respect other religions.

So why are you telling me what you would suffer in a historically Muslim country? I am British, this is my home. Telling me what you would suffer in a Muslim country implies I belong there.

Resorting to personal insults like telling me I’m not bright just shows you don’t have an argument.

This thread is going to need a sequel, @Lesschubtolove ....

I’m almost a bit afraid too 🫣

Yes I work in a multicultural diverse place. Some nights there's 6 in one room on night shift from every corner of the globe. It's not just islam , juju gets discussed, more extreme Christianity a poor Indian Hindu lady has had stuff said to her. I don't like discussing religion or people attempting to convert
. If I want to switch I will do it myself. Yes they have said kaffir and kuffar , I think they think I don't know what it means but I do. I don't believe in a personal god never will.

And yet you have nothing to say about Catholics thinking YOU are sinful because your parents had sex, eh?

I don’t use the term revert but you getting your bee in a bonnet about it is weird. You do realise it doesn’t mean you have to think you’re Muslim right?

No one wants to convert you, love. I’m too busy living my own life to worry about you.

They do my workplace is extremely divided religion and country wise. One half seems to be Muslims the other strict Christians and a couple of Hindus. I have heard some Muslims discussing the kuffar with disdain and how they will meet the hellfire. I don't understand why they would live among us if they believe that about us. Why dont they live in Islamic majority lands? The more strict Christians just go on about going back to Jesus, the Hindus don't discuss religion.

I cant attest to your experience but you must work with some weird people

I do just want to say, that kafir/ kafireen/ kafiroon/ kuffar the term gets a bad rap because of how it’s often used but in its essence it just means non Muslim- it’s not actually an insult. Surah Al kafiroon is a verse with actually a really great message, it’s premise is you don’t believe what I believe and I don’t believe what you believe, that’s ok, let’s find common ground, let’s agree to disagree the last line is ‘to you your religion and to me mine’

@Scirocco In terms of Islamophobia I think it would help if people stopped being so judgemental on what other people wear. The important thing is that Muslim women feel able to swim, exercise, just go out and feel comfortable and not feel hostility because of it. I don't know how much is covered in schools, but a basic understanding of the religion would be helpful, as well as an effort to study inspirational figures like Shirin Ebadi and Malala Yousafzai. We should pay attention to stereotyping in language and in representations in the media. Is there a body that logs Islamophobic incidents in the UK? A compiling of statistics would be helpful in improving the situation.

@8state

The important thing is that Muslim women feel able to swim, exercise, just go out and feel comfortable and not feel hostility because of it.

👏🏼👏🏼👏🏼

Ridiculous that even after nearly a 1,000 posts this message is not getting through.

Because it’s their home?

They shouldn’t be talking like that though, report them to HR anonymously.

@M4J4 It is indeed ridiculous. Or the anger about women's clothing is about something else, not feminism as people say.

I have already said that I think there is a lot worth criticising in Christianity and as someone who was raised as a catholic and has rejected that religion then yea I agree with you - it has its problems. But why are you ok to point out that catholic doctrine can be offensive but I cant find the word revert offensive.
why have you got a bee in your bonnet about me finding it offensive ?

@8state some organisations such as Mend and the Muslim Council of Britain log reported incidents and compile statistics, as do some police forces. The Home Office has stats as well. The Home Office's own statistics showed that, in 2021/22, Muslims were the most targeted religious group in terms of hate crimes, and the actual number of reported hate crimes had increased by over 40% on the previous year.

And that's only taking into consideration things that are actually reported to the authorities through some route. Many people won't report things - they might fear more discrimination if they do, or believe they wouldn't get any help, or not see a point to reporting...

There’s tell MaMa too, they log anti Muslim hate and islamphobia hate crimes

I didn’t say you can’t find it offensive.

Where did I say I find Original Sin offensive? I don’t, it’s a Catholic belief, it doesn’t affect me at all.

You made a small reference to Christianity having plenty to criticise, but don’t seem to want say what that is.

@Lesschubtolove and @Scirocco Many thanks. It is good there are specific bodies, but it sounds pretty bad from the statistics you quote. I think political lobbying is needed as well as more journalism covering the issue. I think there is probably a conflation going on with anti immigrant sentiment and racism as well. Do you have ideas on how people could best support you?

Because this thread is about Islam and Islamophobia - but I do not agree with the catholic belief that gay sex is sinful or that abortion is prohibited or that women can’t be priests. There is more I’m sure but I don’t know why I need to list it all for you? I’m not trying to convert anyone to Christianity I just don’t appreciate people trying to convert me to islam.

All religions seem to put women in 2nd place and I don’t like that. The hijab is a visible symbol of that to me. However I do not think it should be prohibited and wouldn’t tell people that I think they shouldn’t wear it. I am horrified by the French laws regarding swim wear.

@Donotunderestimateme I guess I was wondering why you wanted to list what you don’t like about Islam? As far as I can see, no one has tried to convert you? Unless you think there are subliminal messages in my posts.

I think you need to read my previous posts. I was not accusing you of trying to convert me - I stated that people in my community have tried to covert me.
i actually have no idea why you have picked on my posts out of the hundreds on this thread but I am married to a Muslim and live in a Muslim community so I’m talking from personal experience I’m not pulling this stuff out of my arse

I get that, but I’m not responsible if people are trying to convert you!

I’m not picking on you, I’ve responded to dozens of people on this thread. Why would I not respond to you?

No you are not responsible and I am sorry if I implied that you, as a Muslim, are responsible for other Muslim peoples behaviour. You have made a good point.

The reason that I joined the thread which is about Islamophobia in general I think, was to say that my tolerance of Islam has reduced over time rather than improved as I increasingly feel that Islam is encroaching on my life uninvited because of the influences on my children from their friends family’s. it is having a negative effect on my children and our relationship as they view me now as ‘other’ and constantly question why I am not like their friends mums (eg wearing hijab and attending mosque)and criticise me for whistling singing dancing and even when I was playing chess and ask me to wear swimming trunks in the bath as apparently everything (even our bodies?) is haram?
I feel I have escaped one religion to be invaded by another and this is making me defensive and angry. This upsets me because I am a live and let live type of person in general and do not like feeling this way but feel that other people are not letting me ‘live’ as I would like.

I do get that and I’m sorry you’re going through that.

Is moving house an option?

No. I have lived here for 25 years and don’t see why I should move when my life is here and my work is here and I have a lovely home.

it is hard to know how to respond to my children’s questions and assertions as I have always talked about all religions respectfully (we live near a Hindu temple as well as 2 large mosques and celebrate Passover with Jewish friends and I have taken the children to mass with my mum). I think all religions tell us something about being human and are attempting to answer important questions. I am not anti religion as such but have reservations about them all.
My children consider themselves Muslim now but it is a version of Islam that my husband and his family do not recognise and it is very confusing and annoying for my husband too.