Help end medical misogyny. Sign our petition.

Help end medical misogyny.
Sign our petition.

Sign the petition

Please or to access all these features

AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

To think that I am not being transphobic

218 replies

Ijustneedtime · 25/05/2023 13:42

Few weeks ago my DB told me out the blue that she started hormone therapy to become a female.
It was a shock. She is 30 yo and married to a woman, i was 100% not expecting that.
I have many questions, but i reacted in the most positive way, showing support and understanding.
But there are a lot of things i am not ready for. I am not ready to tell this to my kids. I am not ready to tell this to husband and his family because i know they will not understand. I am not ready to go against my parents to fight for this.
I know i could be better, but from a certain perspective i am still digesting everything. I occasionally still use her old name, or use the masculine. I am not ready to call her Sister.
I am struggling and while she is followed by therapists and support, i am by myself with no one to talk to.

She wrote me a messagge yesterday saying how disappointed she was by me. That my support was fake. That i am a transphobic person and i just want to give this fake nice appearance, and i am the worst disappointment.

I just need time. Or maybe i am really that bad and cannot admit it?

OP posts:
Coyoacan · 25/05/2023 18:06

So, OP, all this is because a therapist diagnosed him with gender dysphoria? The old school transexual would have then had tons of therapy to help them live with that and hormones and surgery were only a last resort

MzHz · 25/05/2023 18:17

@Ijustneedtime why did your sister react this way? What did you do to provoke her anger? Did she tell you to ask you to tell people - h, kids etc - and you just said you’re not ready?

that doesn’t make you transphobic. The fact that your h already doesn’t like this person for other reasons is probably relevant here.

it’s all a bit me me me me, and her poor wife! How’s she coping?

MessOfEyelinerAndSpraypaint · 25/05/2023 18:28

Gender ideology denies the beautiful breadth of humanity. Within the sex binary, are billions of unique women & men, girls & boys.
How does a female know she's actually male? 'I always knew', they say. How? If you are born female, that is your experience. No feelings or behaviour indicates you are the other sex. Because being male or female is the foundation of your being, but not the sum of your parts.
Envy of the other sex, or fetish/kink driven thoughts about yourself as the other sex, still do not give you an insight into the other sex.
I'm sorry your family is affected by this rapidly rolling-out lie.
Capitalism is driving the acceleration & escalation of gender ideology-forever seeking new markets to monetise.
The insidious introduction of the trans/non-binary lie to the youngest in society, is a move to capture a generation & guarantee future medicinal/surgical income. It's the most grotesque profiteering, based as it is on interfering with bodies & minds. Try getting HRT as a menopausal woman, it's a postcode lottery. Seek T or O (E), however, and your reward for furthering the latest money grubbing grift is experimental, off label, drugs.
Teenage girls who previously would have dieted into eating disorder to rid themselves of growing breasts/period onset, should they find puberty terrifying-are now celebrated, validated, & assisted in the journey to 'yeet their teets'.
We are all unique. Human spectrum of personality & expression of how we feel being ourselves, men & women, is currently being squeezed by box walls moving inwards, trapping us in regressive stereotypes. The fanciful preening & bullying protests of those who find this ideology suits their needs, is as oppressive to gender non-conforming, and gay, people as their activists claim the resistance to queer theory is.
OP: think about why your DB is doing this now. What does he gain, socially? How is is wife?
I would tell all your family, don't be afraid. Your DB current retorts to your clearly genuine attempts to support, evidence his delight in playing the victim, while hectoring any who are less than 100% subservient to the gender religion.
I wish you, & him, well.
(Apologies for length but I can no longer scroll silently as this ideology of prescribed identities marches roughshod over centuries of progress.)

Helleofabore · 25/05/2023 18:32

Damnspot · 25/05/2023 17:45

I just wondered if you are happy to use the pronouns they would like or not.

No. There are so many it is hard to keep up with. So every one is 'they'. I have explained very clearly to my teen that I will not be using anyone's preferred pronouns that don't reflect their sex. I was told this was transphobic and I just stated that I cannot control how people talk about me, or what they call me when I am not there. Their friends do not know what pronoun I use for them and to compel me to use a pronoun that is effectively a lie is not inclusive of my need to staying truthful in my life. My teen understand that truth is very important to maintain, even if it is painful to accept. They now understand that respect in this instance does go both ways.

Each family has to find its own method of dealing with these issues. I do not believe that compelled belief around using pronouns and repeating that someone has changed sex when this is impossible is respectful.

I am sure some on this thread may believe that anything other than full alignment with speech is not respectful. I am at peace with people believing that I am hateful for having my own boundaries. I have been called many things by people on MN in the past three years, I am no longer surprised by any of them. All from people who seem to think that they are the most tolerant, and the most accepting. I find that the word tolerant has also been changed in the past few years to mean the very opposite.

mn29 · 25/05/2023 18:38

SparklyTwinkleGlitter · 25/05/2023 14:35

@mn29

I hope you've told your teens that their friend cannot change their biological sex and therefore is not a girl but clearly someone with mental health problems.

Er they’re intelligent people who know that a person can’t magically change sex. But they are sympathetic to the fact that some people feel the body they are born into is not the same as who they feel that they truly are. We try and bring them up to be respectful of all people, and thankfully most of their peers appear to be the same. I wonder if you’d be putting it down to ‘mental health problems’ if your own child came to you in anguish saying they felt trapped in the wrong body. Who are we to judge, especially when it’s not something we’ve experienced ourselves.

(Obviously there are very real difficulties when it comes female-only spaces, but that’s a different discussion).

MzHz · 25/05/2023 18:38

Doyoumind · 25/05/2023 17:55

Why do you think the thread was started in the first place?

It’s not transphobic to say you need time to process, or that you’re not comfortable with having a conversation with very young kids

it’s not transphobic to say that sex can’t change.

Damnspot · 25/05/2023 18:45

Helleofabore · 25/05/2023 18:32

No. There are so many it is hard to keep up with. So every one is 'they'. I have explained very clearly to my teen that I will not be using anyone's preferred pronouns that don't reflect their sex. I was told this was transphobic and I just stated that I cannot control how people talk about me, or what they call me when I am not there. Their friends do not know what pronoun I use for them and to compel me to use a pronoun that is effectively a lie is not inclusive of my need to staying truthful in my life. My teen understand that truth is very important to maintain, even if it is painful to accept. They now understand that respect in this instance does go both ways.

Each family has to find its own method of dealing with these issues. I do not believe that compelled belief around using pronouns and repeating that someone has changed sex when this is impossible is respectful.

I am sure some on this thread may believe that anything other than full alignment with speech is not respectful. I am at peace with people believing that I am hateful for having my own boundaries. I have been called many things by people on MN in the past three years, I am no longer surprised by any of them. All from people who seem to think that they are the most tolerant, and the most accepting. I find that the word tolerant has also been changed in the past few years to mean the very opposite.

Wow. What's the weather like up there?

Helleofabore · 25/05/2023 18:46

"I wonder if you’d be putting it down to ‘mental health problems’ if your own child came to you in anguish saying they felt trapped in the wrong body."

yes. I would. Because gender dysphoria is an issue that requires diagnosis.

However, in saying that, I have noticed lately that many young people have started saying publicly that it is a choice. That they have chosen a 'gender'. There has been quite a change around the discussion with young people. I don't think that the lobby groups have quite caught up with this and it negates a great deal of what they have been saying for the past years.

So. If as a growing number of young people on social media and in person are now saying this is a choice that they are making rather than something innate, where does this leave the discussion around medicalisation, treatment, mental health support and the access of males into female single sex spaces, sports etc?

Or are those young trans people lying? Confused? Should not be listened to? And where does that leave this entire conversation?

Helleofabore · 25/05/2023 18:47

Damnspot · 25/05/2023 18:45

Wow. What's the weather like up there?

You asked. I gave you an answer.

Perhaps you would like to explain what 'What's the weather like up there?' means in this context?

Ilovetea42 · 25/05/2023 18:48

I think you go back to her and say that this is something she's obviously known about herself for some time and has been able to process and decide that now is the right time to take things forward. But for you this is new information and you want to support her, but you naturally will need time to process this change as well. I understand needing to find the right words and the right moment to tell your children, but your dh is a grown man and you should be able to tell him and he should be there to support you first and foremost regardless of his opinion. Its really none of your in laws business so I wouldn't bring it up unless they do and then either be very blasé about it or just say its her private business and it's not really open for discussion. I would find out how your sil is but I'd say to your db first that you are going to reach out because she's mentioned feeling supported at this time and probably to scope the lay of the land- would she want to hear from you for example. I'd imagine that right now your db is getting a very mixed bag of support and emotions are running high for everyone involved so I personally would let the comments about you being transphobic wash over you- I imagine they've been nervous telling you and are maybe misinterpreting things in that light. Or are so focused on their own emotions and stress right now that they don't have space to consider what this change means for the rest of the family, because for her there is no change- they're just being who they've always been.

PurpleBugz · 25/05/2023 18:53

OP do you have a natal female sister?

I ask because I have a sister. She was my birth partner. We talk about things I would never talk to anyone else about. We shared a room growing up, lived together for a bit when we left home. Our bond is female and very very strong. I accept we are closer than many sisters are but I also have brothers. That bond is not the same because they don't have the female experiences my sister and I have had.

Ask yourself what is a woman? What is a sister? What is a mother?

I see you are a mother yourself. What does the word mean to you? Is your DB now a mother? What about his children's actual mother?

Human decency and respect for others goes both ways. Taking the word women/mother/sister is not really kind to the natal women who are women/mother/sister. And that's before you get into the legal side of things. Did you know there are cases of trans woman rapists housed in female prisons where they then rape again? Did you know there have been rapes in women's refuges and women's hospital wards? Of course not all trans people are sick perverts but it's being used by sick persons to access vulnerable people. By supporting the trans movement we would be waving away female rights and protections our elder generations fought so hard to get us

PurpleBugz · 25/05/2023 19:00

@mn29

"(Obviously there are very real difficulties when it comes female-only spaces, but that’s a different discussion)."

I disagree this is a different discussion. If you accept men can claim to be women then you accept it in all instances. There is no middle ground. It's binary you believe men can be women or you don't.

We can treat people with compassion, understanding, care and love without giving away the word woman

Damnspot · 25/05/2023 19:18

This reply has been deleted

Message deleted by MNHQ. Here's a link to our Talk Guidelines.

Helleofabore · 25/05/2023 20:44

Oh dear Damnsport. Did I miss your explanation about what you meant by 'What's the weather like up there?' Is this a Mumsnet thing? Have I missed something?

DollyParkin · 25/05/2023 20:45

Gender ideology denies the beautiful breadth of humanity. Within the sex binary, are billions of unique women & men, girls & boys.

What a beautiful thing to write @MessOfEyelinerAndSpraypaint Thank you.

Damnspot · 25/05/2023 20:52

Helleofabore · 25/05/2023 20:44

Oh dear Damnsport. Did I miss your explanation about what you meant by 'What's the weather like up there?' Is this a Mumsnet thing? Have I missed something?

I can't remember what it said. I think something about mumsnetters constantly mentioning the worst types of people when pretending to care about trans people.

mn29 · 25/05/2023 21:02

One of the trans girls in my child’s school has been wearing fairy wings, dresses etc and wanting to be a girl since reception age - I remember being a bit taken aback at the time as this was a decade ago so being trans was much less widely discussed. Am I to think that she only wants to be a girl because she’s been watching some special kind of porn since the age of 4 or younger? According to a lot of posts on this thread, the answer is yes 🙄

Okshacky · 25/05/2023 21:06

Little boys wanting to wear sparkly fairy wings categorically doesn’t mean they want to be a girl. If they do want to be a girl it’s no different than wanting to be a pony or a Dr or a train driver.

Damnspot · 25/05/2023 21:08

Okshacky · 25/05/2023 21:06

Little boys wanting to wear sparkly fairy wings categorically doesn’t mean they want to be a girl. If they do want to be a girl it’s no different than wanting to be a pony or a Dr or a train driver.

And yet the post you are referring to explicitly says this child wanted to be a girl.

Okshacky · 25/05/2023 21:15

Yes what I was saying was that the behaviour described isn’t indicative of wanting to be anything and shouldn’t be seen as such. If the child had wanted to be a lumber Jack would that mean she had to grow up to be an alpha male?

Damnspot · 25/05/2023 21:17

Okshacky · 25/05/2023 21:15

Yes what I was saying was that the behaviour described isn’t indicative of wanting to be anything and shouldn’t be seen as such. If the child had wanted to be a lumber Jack would that mean she had to grow up to be an alpha male?

Well, in this case it was indicative as the pp explicitly says.

WhereYouLeftIt · 25/05/2023 21:20

Ijustneedtime · 25/05/2023 14:55

So many messages! I am with DC now but I will come back to reply to all later.

The reason why i am not telling DH is because i know he will be very against it and he will tell me to cut contact. He is already not very happy with DB for other reasons, he does not like DB very much personality wise.

Interesting that your husband "is already not very happy with DB for other reasons". Not asking for details, but would it be anything to do with your brother behaving selfishly in some way?

Also, part of your struggle is to do with this coming "out the blue". You grew up with your brother, he's 30 now and it's from out of the blue. You had no inkling. Nothing from your shared childhood suggested any issues. I wonder if there's a nagging doubt at the back of your head about his sincerity.

And like other posters, my sympathy lies with your sister-in-law, his wife. She's just had her world blown apart.

ThorThumb · 25/05/2023 21:21

mn29 · 25/05/2023 21:02

One of the trans girls in my child’s school has been wearing fairy wings, dresses etc and wanting to be a girl since reception age - I remember being a bit taken aback at the time as this was a decade ago so being trans was much less widely discussed. Am I to think that she only wants to be a girl because she’s been watching some special kind of porn since the age of 4 or younger? According to a lot of posts on this thread, the answer is yes 🙄

No of course not.
He’s a boy who likes fairy wings and dresses, but sadly lives in a society where not complying to strict gender stereotypes is seen as problematic.
The only reason this poor boy thinks he is a girl is because stupid adults in his life have told him he’s a girl because boys aren’t allowed to wear fairy wings or dresses, and other stupid adults have gone along with it.
He’s a boy. He will never be female, will never totally fit in with girls/women because he’s not and never will be female. And that’s NOT transphobic, it’s just pointing out how unbelievably cruel it is for any child to be…
1 Told that their clothes and toy preferences are wrong.
2 Aren’t accepted as who they really are and instead pushed down a road where they are pressured to irreversibly damage their bodies to fix themselves to fit into a screwed up world that wants to put young people in boxes with various labels on them, instead of, you know, allowing them to explore who they are safely without any permanence set onto a rather common child/teenage phase.
3 Are told that anyone not accepting that trans people are their desired sex (even though that’s an out and out lie) literally hates them and because of that they’ll likely be suicidal (looking at you Mermaids) which exposes them to more socially contagious mental shitstorm.

LEAVE CHILDREN ALONE.

Linning · 25/05/2023 21:21

Not completely related but I remember having a lot of anger towards certain of my closest friends/family when I came out (as a lesbian) and was faced with the fact that while they were trying to be supportive out of love for me, a lot of them were clearly uncomfortable, and dare I say it a bit ashamed/weirded out by it.

I was only mad for a hot second until I realized that it had taken me 19 years to accept myself so it was maybe fair enough if they needed a minute also. In all cases, coming out (as part of the LGBTQ+ community) is hard and often the anger can be enhanced after coming out when we don’t get the support we hoped for because it’s a reminder that it’s those kind of reactions (or fear of them) that has kept us so uncomfortable and closeted for so long.

To be fair I don’t think your reaction was bad but I do understand how you choosing to hide it from your family, can be hurtful to your sibling. Why not mention it? Does your husband truly needs to understand? personally I don’t ask people to understand my sexuality or to be in favor of it (I 100% do not care if they are or not) I just ask them to accept that that’s the way it is and that therefore their opinion is irrelevant. I am not asking for their opinion or their approval when I come out, I am only letting them know something about me.

So you could just let it be known to your husband without expecting him to « get it » or understand it & just as a simple acknowledgment.

Also I do find your follow up message inappropriate. Saying you are angry it’s coming out of the blue or angry you will never have nephews is definitely something you need to ideally keep to yourself. It’s very rare that people come out out of the blue in their 30’s especially if in a long-term relationship and in a family that’s unlikely to be supportive. It’s a lot more likely that it’s something that they have been through for years and that you simply didn’t notice and that is now finally coming to the surface.

My step dad (who raised me) had a very hard time accepting that I wasn’t suddenly turning gay at 19, because in his mind it was out of the blue when in reality I remember having crushes on girls since as little as 3yo and also equally remember trying to force myself to like boys as that’s what everybody seemed to expect from me. For people who can’t picture someone not being what they see of them it will always come out as a shock to them. For people who live through it, it’s a hard, long grueling process with lots of self-hatred and often trying to force ourselves to change for years.

Something else I found incredibly irritating when I came out was people somehow grieving my straight self (a self that never technically existed). One of my closest friend almost needed support from me to process that we would never have the BBQ on her terrace with both our husbands like she always pictured it, and she really felt like I had burst her bubbles of our future together. As well as people assuming it meant I wouldn’t have kids etc…

That was incredibly strange to me. Like I get it (when you think you know someone but then reality is different etc…) but I found it so inappropriate that they even held me to a standard I might not even have wanted to live up to even if I was straight. Your sibling might never have wanted kids to start with irrelevant of her gender identity. Also being transgender doesn’t mean no kids, it also doesn’t mean you will have to look after her (?), yes you do get to grieve for the sibling you maybe thought you had or wish you had, but don’t put your own (self-created) expectations of them and their future life on their shoulders. Grieve with the people who are going through the same process.

As someone who is gay, I had to spend 19 years of my life grieving the fact that who I was would disappoint some people, including some of my closest and dearest and then I realized I was most disappointed in the fact that those same people caring so much about other people’s sexuality and lives meant that people like me spent years hating themselves instead of loving themselves, which in the end is a lot worse trait than being gay.

So, to answer your OP, you aren’t technically being transphobic, but you also aren’t being as supportive as you think you are. Yes, you are grieving and that’s okay, but also part of being supportive (truly) is to accept that being trans (or gay, or married to someone of a different culture/religion/race) isn’t the end of the world. It doesn’t have to be dramatic, it doesn’t have to be traumatizing. It doesn’t even need to be sad. But what it is will have a lot to do with how you (and everyone who love your sibling) react. If you treat it like you would someone who tells you they don’t eat seafood and just adjust at your level and are supportive without making a big deal of it (one way or another). Then that’s probably the best approach. They are still your sibling, irrelevant of what they look like, are called or dress like. If you would feel more comfortable accepting them being gay then imagine that’s what they have just announced to you and deal with it the same way. Don’t start worrying about their fertility, their relationship, etc… it’s for them to figure out and as a grown adult I am sure they are and have considered it and have weighed the pros and cons of coming out vs not. So just be there for them, as their sibling.

Okshacky · 25/05/2023 21:22

Damnspot · 25/05/2023 21:17

Well, in this case it was indicative as the pp explicitly says.

No in this case it was a coincidence just like eye colour or religion or eating a lot of sprouts.