It's morally wrong to enter into a new relationship with serious health issues?

[Antisocialfluffmonster]

Throwing this out there for debate.

I've been single for a decade after my partner died. This initially was due to work and childcare issues, the only childcare over night I had was for work, and I genuinely didn't have time to date, as a bereaved single parent, I don't get "weekends off".

Anyway, since then I've developed severe health issues, I will never get better, and no it's not because I'm a negative Nancy, it's because it's degenerative.

I'm in my early 40s, work full time mostly from home, spend a lot of non-work time in bed because work exhausts me. Have pets and hobbies, and friends, and my kids. Don't really do holidays as they exhaust me, nothing to do with the kids and all to do with travel and different food and things.

I've planned so that once the kids leave home, they will never be expected to come back and help me. They will be free to live their own lives. Due to health issues I will never own my own home, (can't get life insurance and probably won't live long enough to pay it off) but if I go before pension age the kids will have a sizeable deposit on a house for themselves.

I have a full life, lots of hobbies, pets, friends. I even have friends with benefits. But I don't date any more. I don't allow for any of those friends to go any further. In the past I've been ranted at, "surely it's my decision?"... Nope it's mine, yes it's lonely when you're stuck in bed and desperately wish there was someone else there to get you a cup of tea, but it's not a good enough excuse to have such a negative impact on someone else's life.

I do get a bit cross when friends and family suggest "you've just not met the right person" as if meeting someone else, however wonderful changes the fundamental feeling that it would be wrong to pull them into the reality of my life. I have met some absolutely incredible people, people who I'd have been very happy with, but it's because I cared about them and respected them that I didn't want it to go any further.

I have had counselling over this, and I've accepted the reality of the situation that this creates for me, and I'm genuinely happy with my life, just not my health. I wish my favourite hobbies didn't leave me crippled in bed for a week after it, but that's life.

At least with a FWB, if I'm too ill to get out of bed, or I don't feel sexual for 6 months, it's no big deal, or I'm in so much pain I'm vomiting uncontrollably it's no big deal. It doesn't impact their life in any way. Any dating profiles I have make it clear what's on offer and about my health, so I'm not leading anyone on.

What do you think? AIBU?

I know each person has to make their own decision, but I can be a bit of a judgemental a/hole when I see other very sick people entering the dating pool. So I probably do deserve a bit of flack for that.

You are ill and that is sad, but you have the right to live your life to the full whenever and wherever possible. So go ahead and enjoy what you can. It would be morally wrong not to.

So this is really about you having other priorities (work, kids etc) and that's absolutely fine.

I suspect this is probably the case. OP, maybe you don’t have capacity for a partner because you only have so much energy and you’ve chosen to spend it on other things which is fair enough but please remember another disabled person or someone with poor health may chose not to have kids and actually focus on a partner and they may judge you as the selfish one. An adult partner can easily walk away but a child can’t. so bear that in mind while you make your judgement about others.

I understand what you are saying OP.

My situation is different but similar. I have recently been diagnosed with something progressive and eventually terminal. There is medication to keep the symptoms at bay, and although I seem pretty healthy now, I'm not and my future doesn't look great. I'm going to be able to do less and less until I am housebound and on oxygen. If I live another 20 years it will be a miracle. I'm 38.

I guess the difference is that I am married and have two very young children. Since this though when I have fought with my husband I realise I am in this marriage whether I like it or not. I love him and have no plans to leave him, but when we fight and I am so angry in that moment, I also realise I am trapped. Very soon I physically won't be able to look after my kids myself, so if I was a single mum I wouldn't be able to cope. Also finances etc etc. I've always been independent so in these moments it certainly doesn't feel great.

I've also considered the fact that if I was single I would also feel I would have to stay that way. How could someone enter into a relationship with me when I'm offering them a life that is essentially a ticking time bomb of ill health. Who would want that? But also, how could I give that to someone?

I feel like I owe my husband an apology everyday, because he didn't sign up for this when we married. When I married him I was the picture of health - fit, active, sporty, outgoing. And now, who knows?

Life is hard OP, but I get you...

But well done for all you have done for your kids...financially etc...that is love and you must be a wonderful mum 💜

@whatcanidotobelieve that must be really hard.

Op, I think this relates to seeing yourself as a burden. you've already said that you don't want your kids caring for you in any capacity. I don't either (they do have to make cups of tea) and I hate being a burden, so I sympathise.

I think you have to accept, though, that others may see both being a burden and taking on that burden differently.

I also think posters are naive about how many nice intelligent quality men are queueing up to date middle-aged women with kids and a significant health burden if you look at the stats and the threads on mumsnet. Many cannot be bothered to parent their own children a reasonable amount of the time or do basic housework, so imagine asking them to do all of that and to care for you physically and emotionally and accept limits on their lives. I'm sure there are a few mature souls out there, but most people want partners who can match their energy, activities and lifestyle and it's hard when you can't offer as much as you would like on that front.

That said, finding a great companion or good friend or FWB or the love of your life, I don't think you need to close those avenues off, just be realistic and content if you can with what you do have, no need to worry what anyone else is up to.

@RoseFl0wers I'm not saying that at all!

I only mentioned some conditions as I was asked, but I'm not in the same position as your friends. In my 20s I was disabled, working through it, having a wild time and absolutely dating and loving it. It was a struggle even back then, but I still had a lot to offer in a relationship.

It's actually really difficult to talk about health stuff without making it a competition and I really do hope I don't come over that way as anyone with a long term illness battles in their own way.

I'm at the stage where I'm not recovering from relapses any more, and it is life threatening. It wouldn't be life threatening normally, as there is a standard life saving treatment, but guess which really awkward and difficult person is allergic to the essential medication?

When I care about someone, I really do want the best for them. I just know that my situation isn't that.

You're not going to be dating a child, you're going to be dating an adult, and with this mindset you're removing all agency from that hypothetical person.

You're entitled to do what you want, but by having FWB I'd argue you're leaving the door open for the other person to develop feelings for you whether you like it or not.

I don't see anything wrong so long as you're up front about it. Would I date a person with issues like this? No. But don't tell me what I can and can't do because I'll date you out of pure spite.

When I care about someone, I really do want the best for them. I just know that my situation isn't that

Yes and that's fine. I'm sorry you've had to suffer so much. You've made the decision which you feel is right for you, given your circumstances. You said you want a debate, but you don't seem to want to engage with people really.
As many others are saying, it's fine for you to decide that in your circumstances it would be wrong for you to begin a relationship but it's not fine for you to say that it's morally wrong for others to do that. It's up to them to decide what they are able to give to a relationship and to discuss that with potential partners.

I appreciate your best wishes OP. But I fear you missed my message - yes I experienced pain when he died but was the time I had with him worth that pain? Absolutely. I'd have been much more upset if I had never had the chance to be with him.

Don't date if YOU don't want to, but it's not your job to control and manage other peoples emotions. If they love you and you die, maybe they're absolutely ok with having just had the chance to love you (or even just bonk you if that's what you both want)

No you can't. She's entitled to her opinion. You can disagree and debate. But telling her to fuck off for having a different view of the world isn't adding anything to the conversation.

@Whapples do you have EDS by any chance? Sorry hope that's not too personal?

I have EDS, and have struggle with it since I was young, and absolutely I just was determined to go live my life in spite of it.

There was one particular incident where the kids dad mentioned that I could get my legs behind my head at the Christmas dinner table, and his granny asked why the heck anyone would want to do that.. awkward!

Anyway, it's a tough condition, if that's what you've got so I do wish you all the good things.

I have autoimmune and neurological conditions, with chronic fatigue, plus I've got ADHD and I'm autistic as well, for good measure. My partner of many years knew all of this before we got together, he knew I am regularly limited in what I can manage, and he knew that some of these things were only ever going to stay the same or get worse. He still very much wanted to be with me, and we work around it. We're very happy.

By your reasoning it was "horrifically selfish" of me to enter into this relationship, because I should have treated him like a child; told him I knew what was best for him regardless of his thoughts or wishes, implied he wouldn't be capable of handling these things (pretty insulting) and then remained single forever...because anything else is morally wrong?

You do you. Stay single forever if that's what your morals dictate. Don't judge other people for their choices.

I do hold up my hands to having a very rigid way of thinking, and to me, loving someone is also not wanting to do them harm or let them come to harm.

Well you can try not to harm them by your own direct actions. But you cannot stop someone from being hurt. The only way to stop feeling pain is to stop feeling altogether, and who wants that? People will come to harm, it's just part of life. The flip side is that if you can feel hurt, you can feel joy. Now, you may be choosing to dull any sensation and to try to stop any potential partner from feeling anything. But other people in similar positions will make different positions and they are not, IMO, morally wrong. To state that is just some weird public martyrdom on your part.

@thesebloodycats I'm sorry to hear that you've got so much on your plate, but I'm glad that you've found a relationship that works for you and that you're both very happy. It's nice to hear that people do manage to find a way to make it work no matter how challenging it is.

I do realise that I am very rigid in my thinking, and because of that I don't feel like it was ever a choice to be single. 10 years ago supporting my kids after they lost their dad was more important than trying to establish a new relationship for myself, as I'm sure you can understand.

These days yes it is a choice, but even if I'm entirely wrong, the only person being hurt by my own action is myself.

And being judgemental is human, you're judging me right back. But I did ask for your opinion, and it was good to hear your point of view.

@WisherWood

I think there's a huge difference between a pathological attempt to do no harm ever like an emotionless robot, and having the self awareness to know that you're too ill to be in a relationship.

It was nice to hear other people's views on it, and I did say it was a debate. I do see what other people are saying about making other people's decisions for them.

MN can be pretty savage at times and it's nice that people actually talked about it rather than just resorted to insults.

Absolutely this! Unreal.

@Rightnowstraightaway you're absolutely right. I remember a few years ago I did have attempt a dating profile, and I was brutally honest on there. I use crutches, and that was when I was disabled but not really sick and the most frustrating thing is that hardly anyone bothered to read it. You'd be surprised how many times I turned up on a date on crutches and they would be totally shocked.

You would be allowing that person to knowingly make their own decision , given the facts in front of them

Adults do that all the time

What WOULD be immoral is if you did not tell them of your health issues

@CoronationKicking @readbooksdrinktea I've had chronic health issues and disabilities since I was a baby. I've lived a wild and exciting life including relationships. I'm not saying people shouldn't

I'm asking whether there's a point where health becomes so poor that it is wrong to look for a new relationship?

It's not something I could discuss with family and friends,

But you can disagree with someone without being pistols at dawn about it. But I suppose it is MN

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@glitterisntgendered I do see your point, what you had was valuable and it would have been a tragedy if you'd never met him, however painful it was to lose him.

I think losing aspects of yourself to illness does make you re-evaluate what you have to offer, to friends, to family and anyone else.

@Antisocialfluffmonster where was I "pistols at dawn"? 😅

You can keep saying it's a debate but that won't make it one. You've not debated anything, just repeatedly given a view that most posters completely disagree with.

Just because you've decided that you set the definitions of what constitutes "disability" and what constitutes a "serious illness", that doesn't mean you are right.

You're being a martyr and sitting there all fucking horrified at people who dare to date despite their health issues.

Well… “In sickness and in health” is to prepare for the inevitable health decline that tends to come along with advancing into your elderly years. It’s actually something people expect when they commit to each other. So advising someone that it will happen sooner if they “choose you” like a Pikachu isn’t “morally wrong”. But if you were truly concerned about the feelings of the other person in this hypothetical, I feel you’d be a lot more understanding of the feelings of the countless other people in your position. Even if not yourself 🙄

OP, I also have chronic disabling health issues and although I don't think it would be actually immoral for me to seek a relationship, I really do understand your thinking. I would worry that people wouldn't really know what they were getting into, because how could they? You can say that about relationships in general but actually people don't usually have good insight into how very limiting some conditions are.

And also it takes so much energy to be around another person (especially a new person) and so much energy to 'defend' myself (?) or explain or manage the situaoo, that I actually don't know that it would be good for me. Which is of course a whole other point, totally separate to morality.

I understand you OP.

I have a chronic condition that didn’t really impact my life at all until about fours years, by which time I had been with my DH for 10 years and had two children.

Im not comparing myself to you as your health issues sound much worse than mine, but when I see the impact that my health condition has on my husband, my children and our lives, I feel incredibly guilty.

If I was a single person, I wouldn’t inflict myself on someone else and would instead try and find happiness in being on my own.

This.

If you deny yourself then there is no risk of discovering no one wants you....

You need to work on your self esteem.