How does DH survive at work?

[Putyourdamnshoeson]

He's a senior manager in a large, multi national firm. He's well respected. How? The man is incapable of communicating in any way effectively.

Today, he asks if I'll come with him to DIY shops later to suss out something for a project (a retrofit to make the thing he insisted on work the way it needs to, rather than spend the bit extra I wanted to to just buy the thing we needed in the first place. His way will cost more and take more effort). I said yes, but first we need lunch. I oversee 2 DCs, tweens, getting their own lunch, pick at a bit myself, go upstairs to put shoes on. Waiting for him to say he's ready. 10 minutes later, nothing, I call, nothing. Ask DS10 where his dad is, he says 'don't know, oh wait, he's in the car'.
I go to the car, there he is, he's been there for more than 5 minutes apparently. I ask why he didn't shout, he said 'oh I told DS10 to tell you' (Ds by the way has ADHD).
I ask if he has told DD13 that we are going out, that she's in charge of dog, where were going, we have phones etc, nope. Hadn't thought to.
So, I go back in, tell them, answer the usual 9 questions, etc.
Come back to car, he says 'you took your time', I, admittedly sarcastically said 'yes, I was just parenting, as someone has to'. He goes.on one about how me speaking to 'them' like that is the problem we have as a family, if I could just answer more levelly about things everyone would be happier.
Huh? Him, he means him. He has only very recently, on 90th time of asking started to pay attention to when parents evenings, birthday parties, practices etc might be, even then, it is standard that I remind him.

How on earth does he cope at work, with multi million pound projects?

Yabu: you shouldn't have expected him to tell the kids where you were going and should have responded kindly.
Yanbu: FFS, he can cope for 37 hours a week, presumably, it would be normal to communicate and lead (on a DIY project he suggested)

I'm irritated and fed up of doing all the thinking. I might get flamed, who knows.

Men are perfectly capable of doing stuff at home, like they do at work but most don’t as they know their wife will.

First I'm really sorry he's so unsupportive. I feel for you deeply. I had this too.
I was helped by counselling. My DH was passive aggressive and a covert narcissist, but I was not told this and did not realise at the time.
Even when I was on the floor outside the bathroom where I collapsed when I was so sick when I first found out I was allergic to mussels, he just stepped over me and peed in the loo without a word. My eight year old phoned the Doctor. I was so worried about how to look after the children I did not realise how abnormal, how abusive, it was of him to step over me and ignore me and just use the loo.

Your husband is being passive aggressive. You are being abused.
But I think you do not even recognise you are being disrespected. You think it's his personality, his 'style' or something and, when you find it a problem in trying to run a home with young teenagers, you ask how does he manage at work? But you really need to step back and see that he is abusing you. He probably abuses quite a few people at work, but as we know, work is different. We put up with stuff because we need our salary or we look for another job, we avoid that person... or that person tones it down in case you complain.

You need to learn self-respect. You are wearing yourself out, doing everything for the family, going to get the extra things from the DIY with him even though he didn't respect your advice and buy the right thing in the first place. It's interesting to me that he wanted you to go to the shop to suss out what was needed for the project which he would have been wiser not to have begun but rather to follow your advice in the first place. He seems to need you but to resent that fact.

You need to value yourself. Start saying no. Start ignoring him and having your own life. Start saying, 'Thursday nights from 7 you are in charge, each week I'll be out and on Saturdays. This is my time off.' And don't leave meals for them. Food in the fridge/freezer, ok, but not a prepared meal.

Your situation is so horrible for you that it is easy to get sucked in to every little niggle and allow him to pull all the strings by his behaviour. Because children have to be taken care of straight away he can force you to be on edge and dancing to his tune while he does not care about doing his bit. It becomes a constant argument about each problem he causes. Each problem he causes because he wants to upset you.

I am sure that at work he has a secretary who runs around him doing all the small stuff and he is sarcastic to juniors who do not jump as soon as he wants something. Many people get promotions who are basically horrible people. I had a Head of Dept in a University who did not know how to take out a Library book and who bullied and blackmailed everybody, but a few women still hung on his every word. Other people did his job for him, somehow he, like quite a few academics I've known, coasted by while others did his job.

But in your case, I think your problem is you have married a cruel man who abuses you and who gets his kicks out of putting you down. Do not interact with him while he disrespects you. If he cannot be bothered to communicate, then just let him get on with it and go and do something for yourself. If he finds you and asks why you didn't come and find him (e.g. when he sat in the car) simply stay calm and a little remote and say he hadn't bothered to come and tell you he was ready to go so you assumed he'd changed his mind. Don't argue, don't get drawn in. Don't let him see you upset.

I recommend you seek a Counsellor to whom you can talk so you can get a perspective on this. At the moment you are so swallowed up in the every-minute demands of the home and work that you can't see the wood for the trees. Also look online for help with how to be assertive and setting boundaries. I found Stephanie Lyn on YT ages ago and have been really impressed with her. Look up her talks on assertiveness and setting boundaries. I found this one just so you can get started, but do look around for what suits you; * *

Is?? So you are still with someone who is like this???

I've lived with male housemates like that - they didn't want to do anything at all. I just wanted them to do someone tasks, like do the bins, for hygiene reasons, but I guess as they were living with a woman they thought I should be doing this for them.

I got really fed up with sugar coating my requests for help. No matter how nice my tone, they always had a bit of an attitude or sour face. I saw what it was. They wanted me to grovel before them because they didn't like that their Lordships were being asked to do humble woman-work.

Not all couples therapy is like this. We had some because of very similar reasons - I pretty much did every fucking thing while he took weeks to do the smallest, basic task that I'd managed to delegate to him.

It came to a head last year and I basically said "sort couples therapy or we are done and I mean it." He did and I genuinely think he was gobsmacked that the therapist kept asking him "why?"... "why don't you show any interest helping sort the family holiday/the new car/the broken window? Why don't you take over the cooking when she does a nightshift? Why don't you sort anything at home? Why is it her job?"

She suggested having a weekly meeting and divvying up everything that needed doing so I wasn't carrying the mental load. It sort of works unless it involves him spending money - as he is notoriously cheap, things that might have a cost don't often happen. Then I remind him of the counselling, how expensive it was (i.e more that just fucking getting a light fixed in a bedroom) and he snaps back into being somewhat useful again.

It is worth a go. Last year he was pretty shocked to realise just how much I resented him and disliked the lazy fucker way he was behaving. Proper wake up call.

We both work full time, I'm the higher earner and I have a job which can involve all sorts of last minute shenanigans from very early starts to travel. There really was no wiggle room for him to be a twat. I definitely feel warmer towards him after counselling (although he still will default to lazy fucker if we don't have the weekly meetings and I may murder him over his inability to sort a window cleaner which has been on his to do list for about three months now. Yes I could do it, but it has been labeled as his job and he needs to sort it out).

From reading your posts it sounds like your H dulls your shine. When you have a moment, I suggest having a read of these two threads that are in the relationships board. Both posters started off complaining about sulky husbands.

www.mumsnet.com/talk/relationships/4572101-plucking-up-the-courage-to-leave?page=1

www.mumsnet.com/talk/relationships/3448545-Confronting-DH-about-his-sulking

He doesn't care enough, does he?
Correct. Or rather, he doesn't care enough. My DH is similar but after 30+ years I've had enough and desperately trying to find a way out. I cant cope with the thought of living with him this way for the next twenty years compounded by the fact I will get no respite once hes retired. Just think ....24/7 of gaslighting bullshit. No thanks.

I was in the same situation, just with less years together - 10 only, however 2dc and 2 pets. Been arguing quite a lot in recent 2 years as despite being the higher earner, I did the lion share of work with everything. He even moaned about me not washing my car often enough. I needed to point everything out, remind him of events, school stuff etc. He never remembered that pets need food or vet appointments. Zero idea how much the bills were or whom the suppliers were, and zero interest in learning when I tried to discuss with a color coded spreadsheet to hand. He would never put anything on a wall diary or digital one, he would never tell me what he had planned etc. The arguments were always about me nagging and my supposed attitude as I wasn't treating him like a man. I told him if he didn't like it he could go. One day he actually did. That was 3 months back. He already wanted to come back but only to share the house as he figured out he is lonely and doesn't like living in a mess. He also said he will continue to go out etc as a single man even if he mover back in. He also mentioned how clean my house is now that he is not there and why I suddenly do all the chores without complaining and if I did that while he was here, we would still be together. The bloody cheek! I told him to do one and that he is never coming back and this is the reason why my house is so clean. I am still doing it all myself but my mental health has improved greatly! I don't have another child to parent, I don't have the blatant disrespect, I don't have to listen to football or stupid videos on his phone. I don't have telly blasting at 3am as he fell asleep with it on (every night). The list is endless. I feel bad for my dc as they have to go to his every other weekend but I actually get a break and feel much more positive and set up for the week.

OP, remember, you cannot make someone into something they are not and never were. You do however need to decide whether you fancy another 20 years of gaslighting over your supposed attitude. He will probably get worse the older he gets.

oP I feel for you - very familiar situation as there are a LOT of enabled men around who hold down senior roles.

As a person who has been single most of my life what I find frustrating is the number of women who complain about this but do nothing and continue to enable these men! (I have to work with these facilitated men and they can be so irritating!)

Anyway I've come to the conclusion that these women accept it as the trade off is the income their senior mgr DH brings in. Nice main income, nice house, nice holidays - don't want to lose that so women suck it up.

You're not going to be able to change him at this stage as you're 20 years in ----so you need to ask yourself if it's all worth it and whether you can continue a relationship where you are enabling someone you don't respect and, importantly, who doesn't respect you.

Why did you marry such a dick? He would drive me insane. Why are your self esteem issues so poor that you didn't recognise this all as an issue, when you were dating?

The accusation men make that women don’t ask ‘nicely’ or speak in the wrong ‘tone’ is simply a get out device, a progression, if you like, of ‘don’t nag’. I suffered it for many years but fortunately DH, a generally decent bloke, has come to appreciate me much more. It has nevertheless been a hard slog!

If he wanted to he would

Because he wasn’t ‘such a dick’ when OP married him. These men take years to become dicks, it usually gets worse when they have children.

90stalgia · Yesterday 15:19
Large, multi-national firms are full over over-promoted, thick blokes.

this is what i have seen also. totally plain, washed out, empty people

Ha ha ha yes. You’re lucky if it’s just your husband, all the men in my life are like this. I have a very senior job (which I do well). DH does do a lot at home but I still have to take a lot of mental load or things won’t be done. My brother seems to think our elderly mum is my responsibility and he just ‘helps’. Mum adores him and undermines me. A senior male colleague demands babying and would treat me like his PA if I let him. I’m his boss, so I don’t.
I’m not a weed and I don’t accept this. I try to take it on case by case. But unless I sack off my entire life, DH, mother, brother and job, and live in a nunnery I have no idea how to beat it. Sacking off entire life sounds tempting…..

So he's just sidled off to the car. Almost like he thinks he has no kids. Wtf

This!!!! Guy at work just been promoted and see as a golden boy, yet so many other people do his work and the wee sweary word actually asked why he had to do something cause it wasn't important, I.e. my job 🤬 had the joy of his complaining about my processes and I sitting on global review. Thankfully my corporate and always has my back 😁

It's called weaponised incompetence, your husband is more than capable of doing his fair share but by weapons ingredients his incompetence you do it all. Would I hell!!!

While it is great to complain about men, there is a danger I think.
Most people are decent and are doing their best. Partners are frustrating.
When it is said that the vast majority of men do not put their partners first, it normalise abusive relationships.

You know how he copes at work? He has to.
He doesn’t have to at home.

End of story.

While it is great to complain about men
I’ll just stop you there, because CORRECT!

I had an ex like this. I sacked him.

I could kinda tolerate the situation because I earned more than him and just paid for the house and garden to be done, and he stayed at home with the kids complaining about it all, but the final straw was when I asked him to do something social with me and he said no, can't you go with a friend.

I realised then that I was just paying for this man to live the life of Riley and he was not the slightest bit interested in me anymore.

I've been single for ten years, it's amazing.

It’s a total pain. I has substantially got through to my dh(let’s see, he’s doing the dcs bday presents this year for the first time!). In the specific car example, you stay calm by taking the time yourself. You get in the car, write a list of the things needed in the house, this still needs doing before we leave so my turn to scroll on my phone, come back out when you’ve done the list. But in the specific car example I’d have already listed out what a dumb idea it was that he didn’t listen to me to start with so here we were spending time and money to fix things.

I have been very very clear that if you are only doing things you’ve been told to , you are the household management equivalent of the copyboy and you jump when you’re told to jump. If you’re joint in the proactive planning and decision making then your management and you get to input. You can’t be both and no I should not tolerate the menial labour being mad they don’t get a say. I have been known to say very calmly you’ll have to find a competent adult and ask them, or perhaps one of the dc know that one? as an answer to stupid questions.

My husband used to be very similar, I had a little one before we met so obviously I dealt with everything, childcare, drop offs & pick up after work etc. I was the higher earner but he started work before me. Once we had a child together the default was again me doing everything in relation to the kids, housework etc as he worked Saturdays & then played golf on Sunday so everything was down to me. The kids activities, taking them to football training, going to the matches solo etc. Our youngest has autism & I dealt with everything to do with his needs, special school, appointments, EHCP, physio etc. we went to counselling which helped him see that I was doing everything whilst he had his golf twice a week & darts once a week & I had no time for myself at all.

Then I became disabled, I needed emergency surgery due to loosing all feeling below the waist. Whilst I was in hospital he obviously did everything because he had too. When I came home he continued to do everything. I’m still in a lot of pain & on a high dosage of fentanyl & morphine along with other meds. He’s taken over doing pretty everything to do with the kids & house.

He won’t even let me get out of bed in a morning because I ‘mess up his routine’ (jokingly). The mornings are the hardest for me in terms of pain, so he doesn’t everything related to getting the youngest ready for school (eldest is now 22 so doesn’t need us to do anything for him, also he’s been taught to do for himself. He does his own cooking, cleaning etc). DH cooks most nights, loads/unloads the dishwasher, helps with laundry & housework etc. I do what I can but can’t manage to do a lot.

It’s crazy to me that for so many years I struggled to cope with doing absolutely everything yet now my situation has changed he can do it all. I ask him why he didn’t do it before & he said that it just wasn’t a priority to him & that I just did it all so he didn’t realise just how much I did until I couldn’t do it anymore. Anyway my point after that huge essay was that he didn’t do anything because he knew I would just get it done. I guess as a society most of us tend to assume that men are just like that, we have such little expectations that we let them get away with murder

Urgh terrible to read. They think women are the servant class. Had a male housemate like that my friend put all his undone washing up in his bed in the end.

DH has a big job and his mum waited on his dad. But he is NOT like this. He is always doing stuff round the house so are both my brother in laws (both have decent jobs) and many of my friends Dh. So it is not “how men are” don’t let them make you think that.

What happens if he doesn't do something at work? He would be disciplined / it would affect someone else's job / the company would lose money etc.
What happens if he doesn't do something at home? You do it for him. You complain but you still do it for him.
There is your answer. He functions at work because he has no choice.