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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

It's a nasty neighbour one with diagram!

489 replies

bathroomwindowargh · 25/04/2023 11:53

So much of this is tedious backstory, but better to contextualise and not drip feed, so here we go. Also I’d prob be wise to change details but on the other hand I can barely get my head round it myself so this is all straight facts. Name changed though!
We live in a weird house, and when I moved in with now DH 15 years ago, as part of a revamp we built a new bathroom in part of the existing garage, bathroom had no window. The back wall of our house and garage and therefore the outer wall of the bathroom is a wall in someone else’s garden. I know I’m gonna have to add a diagram and I will!
The someone else was an elderly neighbour who I really loved and visited a lot, but she died a couple of years ago, and the house was empty for a bit.
This just happened to coincide with us re-doing the bathroom and DH thought it was a chance to put a window in. He didn’t put one in first time round because we asked elderly neighbour’s late DH and he said no, so fair enough we didn’t push it. But this time DH thought the timing meant he could get away with it. I was a bit unsure but he basically just went ahead.
In the process he a) informed the son of late elderly woman that window was happening and could he please tell any buyers.
b) informed the estate agents to please tell any buyers.
c) got planning permission.

Basically he kept in touch with son and EA so we thought all good. Window finished. New neighbours moved in. A couple in their 30s, new to the village (yes we live in a village, so it's rural). The bloke hit the roof at the window, and claims no one told him, but we have our suspicions that he might be telling porkies.
Now the window cannot be seen at all from their house (I know this for a fact because I spent plenty time in their house visiting elderly friend, and I’m well aware what parts of the garden are visible from the house and what are not). This wall is not. It’s not a large window it’s a wide but shallow window from top to bottom window and the glass is not remotely see through, proper obscured glass. But the bloke hates it and is obviously very pissed off.
I have some sympathy for this to be honest, I did think DH was chancing it building the window while the house was empty, even though he played it all by the book.

Now to the meat. Since they moved in bloke and DH are at loggerheads but managing to be sort of surface polite, bloke came round and discussed it with DH and DH agreed to a window limiter so window would only open a couple of inches. Not happy but agreed. I was away so I haven’t met them.
However – DH says bloke was subtly threatening and bullying, and since we agreed to window limiter bloke has put both a shed overlapping one end of the window, a trellis right up almost touching and – worst and most aggressive – a piece of wood against the outside of the window so that effectively we can’t open it all all, not even a centimetre. DH very upset. It does feel like a bullying act of aggression, especially given we agreed to limit the window from our side, and it means we can’t clean the outside of the window by opening it and with the trellis etc DH thinks it’s going to get quickly fouled up with trapped leaves.
Meanwhile the pretence at being civilised carries on apace and DH, who bumps into the bloke fairly regularly (I never seem to see them but I’m away a lot) has invited them both round for coffee and to see the bathroom, to which they’ve just replied they’ll get back to us with times.
DH wants civility to prevail and wants me to re-open the question of a window limiter and could he please kindly remove his fucking aggressive stick from our window (my words, I’m getting angry writing this).

My problem is I’m a post-menopausal harpy and I feel only capable of two modes with this. 1. Play dumb and nice but not get involved. 2. Give it to bloke with all barrels, tell him what I think of his piece of wood and call him out for bullying DH. DH is a totally non-macho pussycat by the way and probably mildly autistic, hence walking into this by blithely building his bloody window.
I could do without ANY of it! By the way there are no other windows on the back of our house except three roof skylights in the upstairs living room.

Help – what should I do? I’ve been putting off even thinking about it but it’s now upon us – the civilised visit – and I’m going to have to meet these people and say something. But what? AIBU to want to fight the bully?
Sorry so long. Really didn’t want to drip feed.

It's a nasty neighbour one with diagram!
OP posts:
Ramunea · 25/04/2023 12:01

The layout seems strange so I really can’t picture it but I do think your partner knew there may be a risk of this happening as he was previously told no and thought to do it anyway before the new neighbours moved in.

if the previous owners thought the window may be invasive; I’m imagining the new neighbours feel somewhat the same.

Stompythedinosaur · 25/04/2023 12:02

I'm not sure there's much you can do tbh - I would hate someone to build a window facing into my private garden and he's perfectly allowed to put a trellis up on his property to reduce how much he's overlooked. It sounds like, when you open the window, you are encroaching across the boundary and into his garden.

I'm really surprised you go planning permission for it.

Ramunea · 25/04/2023 12:04

I’m very surprised you got planning permission for this also. Essentially you’re overstepping the boundary of his property. I would be pissed too.

Greentree1 · 25/04/2023 12:04

You didn't want the window in the first place, knowing it was likely to cause trouble and you were right. I assume you just wanted a bit of light in the room and you have used obscured glass, if you show them how limited your visibility is you might be able to reach a compromise. I assume you are literally on the boundary and cannot reach the window from their side to clean it, otherwise I would say fix the window shut so you can't open it and look into his garden.

Afraid I'm with the neighbour it was a sneaky action.

CatOnTheChair · 25/04/2023 12:06

I can totally see why your neighbour's - old and new - don't want a window of yours opening into their garden.
The limiter is a very, exceptionally, reasonable request. The timing of the sale/PP strikes me that you knew it would be problematic with any new neighbour.

That said, I'm not sure they should be attaching things to the side of your house either. Or is the trellis freestanding? At which point I don't think you can really complain - otherwise you are restricting what he can do in his own garden.

Vroomfondleswaistcoat · 25/04/2023 12:06

Why didn't you put a window in the ceiling? I have a windowless bathroom (middle terrace, downstairs bathroom), with a lightwell in the ceiling and I'm looking to have it replaced with a big glass window in the roof.

A window that directly looks out onto someone else's garden like this is always going to be tricky. Could you put up a fixed blind or something in the meantime?

VegetablesFightingToReclaimTheAubergieneEmoji · 25/04/2023 12:06

If you got planning for the window, the new owner is unreasonable. I mean it’s shit. But it is what it is and you’ve tried to be accommodating but he’s not been.

your dh knew he was chancing his arm though and it’s how much you want to fall out with your neighbours. Presumably you have access rights for maintenance on that side anyway?

JustGotToKeepOnKeepingOn · 25/04/2023 12:07

Forget everything else, you have planning permission. The neighbour is being ridiculous. Get in touch with Planning and confirm that you have to be able to open the window.

VegetablesFightingToReclaimTheAubergieneEmoji · 25/04/2023 12:07

Could the window open inwards?

Barrysmintybiscuits · 25/04/2023 12:12

While I was reading your post I thought you were being unreasonable but after seeing the diagram and reading that you said you'd put a limiter on it I don't think it's quite as bad as I originally thought. It's still a really weird place for a window but not as bad as I thought.

If you have planning permission then he can't do anything but I suppose my worry if I were him would be what if you move out, new people move in, take off the limiter and change the window to a normal non obscured one so his garden isn't private.

Hereward1332 · 25/04/2023 12:15

You don't have the right to open the window into his garden. You should have put in an inward opening one, or non-opening. I'm not surprised he is annoyed - you're trying to take over some of his garden, and did it deliberately when no-one was living there to object. Now it is inhabited, you reap what so sow. They can't object to the window, but can stop you intruding into their property. For what it's worth, he would be quite entitled to plant a leylandii there which would block all the light so insisting on rights may not be the best way to handle it.

FrenchandSaunders · 25/04/2023 12:15

I thought you were being a CF reading that, but having seen the diagram, it's right at the end of the garden, and sort of round a corner so what's his problem!

You have planning permission, he needs to get over it.

blondiiiee · 25/04/2023 12:17

Ehhhh I moved into a flat where the the neighbour previously have removed the bush on the boundary and built his conservatory. Luckily he hasn't put full length windows on the side which is basically in my garden facing my kitchen because otherwise I would have definitely blocked it with trellises.

On your diagram however. I can see how it's not thaaaat invasive but I just think it was a dick move from your dh tbh. Gardens are gardens for privacy. And if the old neighbours which were good friends with you didn't want it! Why on Earth would strangers want to be subjected to it!

Exasperatednow · 25/04/2023 12:17

If I was your neighbour I'd be annoyed. I wonder if you git planning permission because there wasn't anyone living there to object.

Vroomfondleswaistcoat · 25/04/2023 12:18

Bearing in mind its a bathroom though - could neighbour be worried that he may be accused of 'peeping Tom' activities? I know you said that bit of the garden can't be seen from the house, but if he wants to use that piece of the garden for anything, and people are in the bathroom with a light on... it's almost impossible NOT to see something, and he may be worried that his gardening activities could be impeded by trying to avoid your bathroom activities so as not to run the risk?

Hereward1332 · 25/04/2023 12:19

JustGotToKeepOnKeepingOn · 25/04/2023 12:07

Forget everything else, you have planning permission. The neighbour is being ridiculous. Get in touch with Planning and confirm that you have to be able to open the window.

Planning permission does not give you rights over someone else's property. The neighbour is not under an obligation to allow the window to open. I could aply for planning permission to build a house in your garden; it doesn't mean I would own the land. I would just need to tell you I have applied.

Rollercoaster1920 · 25/04/2023 12:19

I'm on your neighbour's side here. You and your husband have acted selfishly. Did you get approval to trespass to fit the window? Had there been a legal agreement to open into your neighbour's land? Did you get building regs sign off about fire proof glass on the boundary?

I'd build a shed right up against them window if I was your neighbour too. Who wants to hear bathroom noises of the neighbours when in your own garden?

You've now created a bad neighbour situation, a dispute, and devalued your own house and next door.
See this for future problems:
https://www.oakconservatories.co.uk/glazing-next-to-a-boundary-is-not-a-good-move/

I suggest you talk to your neighbour, apologise, and go about returning the wall to brick.

Glazing next to a Boundary is NOT a good move - Oak Conservatories

Why is glazing next to a Boundary NOT a good move? Click here to explore why or call 08456-442257 to discuss your situation.

https://www.oakconservatories.co.uk/glazing-next-to-a-boundary-is-not-a-good-move

Nordicrain · 25/04/2023 12:20

So there is a window from your house into their garden? I think most people would agree that's not ideal. While you obviously are entitled to do it given you got consent and planning (although sneakily as you probaby knew a new owner wouldn't agree), your neighbour can do what he likes in his garden.

You DH sounds like a bit of a dick.

bathroomwindowargh · 25/04/2023 12:21

Inward opening window.
God how much do I wish these words had crossed my mind - but they didn't, and I was not in control of any of this. It's too late, window has already cost us and all the inner tiling has been done, to change the window would cost shed loads of money.
We couldn't have a roof window because the garage is higher than the bathroom, i.e. the bathroom is like a box inside the garage, so the top of the bathroom would only open into the inside of the garage.

I think you're all right. DH shouldn't have done it. But now he feels he's being bullied and I'd like to try and do what might help peace to break out, while not abandoning DH. Arggggh!

OP posts:
FuchisaGroan · 25/04/2023 12:22

Legally, it’s trespass if you open the window into his garden. You also don’t yet have any right to light as the window hasn’t been there long enough. If I were him I would put a fence panel up to the boundary, entirely blocking your window to ensure that you didn’t later acquire any right to light (and, thus, rights over his garden). Planning permission gives you the right to install the window, but it doesn’t give you any rights over your neighbours garden.

silverlentils · 25/04/2023 12:22

Well you had planning permission but things have to be really invasive to not get planning permission. The onus is on the buyer to check for any planning permission applications when they are buying.

Sounds like he is being a dick about it but I wouldn't like a window opening over my boundary either.
Having said that most people have neighbours windows that overlook their property somehow.

Can you change the window to one that opens inwards and with the opening on the left so when it is open you still can't see their garden? And show neighbour from your bathroom that you can't see over their garden

I think your best bet is to 'kill him with kindness and be really nice, as you have to live near him and he can make your life hell. And document everything you suggest and his response and what happens.

akkakk · 25/04/2023 12:23

Hereward1332 · 25/04/2023 12:19

Planning permission does not give you rights over someone else's property. The neighbour is not under an obligation to allow the window to open. I could aply for planning permission to build a house in your garden; it doesn't mean I would own the land. I would just need to tell you I have applied.

As said here - planning permission does not trump law - you can get planning permission for areas / spaces / things that you can't legally build... I suspect that you would need a flying leasehold / freehold to have part of your property out over his property.

I suspect that he can't prevent you keeping a window there, but he can certainly stop you from ever opening it - and there is zero you can do if he decides to put boundaries / items up on his property

GoodChat · 25/04/2023 12:25

Can you get a window that slides up? You might not have to replace the frame then, just the window itself?

Ultimately, it's his garden so he can do what the wants as long as it's not damaging your property.

MrBit · 25/04/2023 12:25

I'm with your neighbour
Ithink it's bloody cheeky of you, you are encroaching on his property and expect him to lap it up
I'd be putting everything up to stop you opening it

steppemum · 25/04/2023 12:26

I think you need to decide what is about being neighbourly and what is actually legal/not legal.

You have planning permission.
I would start there with this neighbour. You applied for and got planning permission BEFORE they owned the house.
It was therefore the job of his lawyer to flag up anything pending on the house and highlight that there was a planning permission granted. Doesn't matter what the estate agent did or didn't say, that was his lawyer's job.

So he bought the house with the window agreed for by planning and any issue with that is down to his lawyer, and not your problem.

So I would start there and then
On the other hand, it would be good for neighbourly relations to not fall out over this. I would personally query if their trellis is attached to my wall? Is there a party wall agreement? If it isn't and is free standing, then a way forward would be that the trellis stands in front of the window to obscure it from his side, but that he agrees that he won't grow big plants up it which will obscure the window.

Personally I think the window should open inwards, or be none opening with an extractor fan in it.

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