Meet the Other Phone. Child-safe in minutes.

Meet the Other Phone.
Child-safe in minutes.

Buy now

Please or to access all these features

AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

It's a nasty neighbour one with diagram!

489 replies

bathroomwindowargh · 25/04/2023 11:53

So much of this is tedious backstory, but better to contextualise and not drip feed, so here we go. Also I’d prob be wise to change details but on the other hand I can barely get my head round it myself so this is all straight facts. Name changed though!
We live in a weird house, and when I moved in with now DH 15 years ago, as part of a revamp we built a new bathroom in part of the existing garage, bathroom had no window. The back wall of our house and garage and therefore the outer wall of the bathroom is a wall in someone else’s garden. I know I’m gonna have to add a diagram and I will!
The someone else was an elderly neighbour who I really loved and visited a lot, but she died a couple of years ago, and the house was empty for a bit.
This just happened to coincide with us re-doing the bathroom and DH thought it was a chance to put a window in. He didn’t put one in first time round because we asked elderly neighbour’s late DH and he said no, so fair enough we didn’t push it. But this time DH thought the timing meant he could get away with it. I was a bit unsure but he basically just went ahead.
In the process he a) informed the son of late elderly woman that window was happening and could he please tell any buyers.
b) informed the estate agents to please tell any buyers.
c) got planning permission.

Basically he kept in touch with son and EA so we thought all good. Window finished. New neighbours moved in. A couple in their 30s, new to the village (yes we live in a village, so it's rural). The bloke hit the roof at the window, and claims no one told him, but we have our suspicions that he might be telling porkies.
Now the window cannot be seen at all from their house (I know this for a fact because I spent plenty time in their house visiting elderly friend, and I’m well aware what parts of the garden are visible from the house and what are not). This wall is not. It’s not a large window it’s a wide but shallow window from top to bottom window and the glass is not remotely see through, proper obscured glass. But the bloke hates it and is obviously very pissed off.
I have some sympathy for this to be honest, I did think DH was chancing it building the window while the house was empty, even though he played it all by the book.

Now to the meat. Since they moved in bloke and DH are at loggerheads but managing to be sort of surface polite, bloke came round and discussed it with DH and DH agreed to a window limiter so window would only open a couple of inches. Not happy but agreed. I was away so I haven’t met them.
However – DH says bloke was subtly threatening and bullying, and since we agreed to window limiter bloke has put both a shed overlapping one end of the window, a trellis right up almost touching and – worst and most aggressive – a piece of wood against the outside of the window so that effectively we can’t open it all all, not even a centimetre. DH very upset. It does feel like a bullying act of aggression, especially given we agreed to limit the window from our side, and it means we can’t clean the outside of the window by opening it and with the trellis etc DH thinks it’s going to get quickly fouled up with trapped leaves.
Meanwhile the pretence at being civilised carries on apace and DH, who bumps into the bloke fairly regularly (I never seem to see them but I’m away a lot) has invited them both round for coffee and to see the bathroom, to which they’ve just replied they’ll get back to us with times.
DH wants civility to prevail and wants me to re-open the question of a window limiter and could he please kindly remove his fucking aggressive stick from our window (my words, I’m getting angry writing this).

My problem is I’m a post-menopausal harpy and I feel only capable of two modes with this. 1. Play dumb and nice but not get involved. 2. Give it to bloke with all barrels, tell him what I think of his piece of wood and call him out for bullying DH. DH is a totally non-macho pussycat by the way and probably mildly autistic, hence walking into this by blithely building his bloody window.
I could do without ANY of it! By the way there are no other windows on the back of our house except three roof skylights in the upstairs living room.

Help – what should I do? I’ve been putting off even thinking about it but it’s now upon us – the civilised visit – and I’m going to have to meet these people and say something. But what? AIBU to want to fight the bully?
Sorry so long. Really didn’t want to drip feed.

It's a nasty neighbour one with diagram!
OP posts:
LIZS · 26/04/2023 12:32

So your window is trespassing onto their property? Pp does not take ownership into account, so could be illegal even with it. Did you have br for the conversion to bathroom and subsequent window?

Tessasanderson · 26/04/2023 12:34

bathroomwindowargh · 25/04/2023 16:42

Sorry I know there's a hundred questions I'm feeling a bit overwhelmed.

Trying to answer some - we most definitely had pp for the bathroom originally and it was signed off after construction.
Bathroom has hitherto been ventilated by electric extractor fans. Which we still have.
It's the only bathroom.
The window was built while elderly deceased neighbour's son still owned the house with his full knowledge and permission.

Answering this and similar - Looking at the diagram, it seems more likely they both bought property that was historically like this. Maybe it was all one property at one time. Form the odd shape, it looks like she's in an old carriage house or outbuilding. The wall of her home is what makes his garden "private".
This is spot on. It's all very old estate buildings, dating from way back before building regs, and carved up almost arbitrarily. One house was the main house, one was a butcher's ours was actually an abattoir so technically it's a barn conversion. The gardens are all different shapes and sizes and yes it's our back wall that makes his garden private, exactly so.

Lastly I did not buy this house, DH bought it before I even knew him, then we met and got together and I moved in. It has its lovely points and very much its downsides too. (He doesn't really see the downsides, or not as much as I do.)

I've had a discussion about all this with DH. He can actually see a lot of these points and he's psyching himself up to apologise and I'm pretty much going to keep out of it. He's not nasty, but he's not good with understanding people and I think he thought that because neighbour's son was ok with it it would all just be seamless.
And I've been away a lot over the last few months - partly because we've had no damn bathroom - so I was out of touch with it all and leaving it to him.

I'm actually really grateful for everyone's opinions and I think we made a mistake and need to make amends and I totally take on board that neighbour can put up his trellis etc. More importantly I think I've got DH to understand it better.
And sorry for pulling the menopausal excuse but I really do feel horribly ragey a lot of the time and I never used to at all before the menopause. But normally I can channel it productively.

What a lovely mature reply. Fingers crossed it all works out. Maybe the new neighbour, seeing how mature you have been about it may take 5 mins and look at compromises.

GasPanic · 26/04/2023 12:44

DrPrunesquallor · 26/04/2023 12:02

Planners may give permission for something that there is no legal right for.
Planners do not have any responsibility to check these, it’s not their remit.
It is the responsibility of the applicant to ensure they act within their rights.
I could get planning to build a block of flats in my neighbours garden but that doesn’t mean I can.
Getting planning approval is not the be all and end all.
This is a boundary wall so there are many legal hoops to jump through.

That wasn't my point. I agree with what you say.

The point is, if a recessed sash window is fitted, and pp is granted, what action could be taken ?

There wouldn't be a pp breach because pp was granted. So that route would be closed.

There wouldn't be a trespass because the window would now not open out onto the neighbours land. So that route would be closed.

So unless there was some other sort of legal issue, there would be no basis for bringing action.

Lifesagamethentheytaketheboardaway · 26/04/2023 12:54

GasPanic · 26/04/2023 12:44

That wasn't my point. I agree with what you say.

The point is, if a recessed sash window is fitted, and pp is granted, what action could be taken ?

There wouldn't be a pp breach because pp was granted. So that route would be closed.

There wouldn't be a trespass because the window would now not open out onto the neighbours land. So that route would be closed.

So unless there was some other sort of legal issue, there would be no basis for bringing action.

Yes, but the neighbour wouldn’t have to take any action. The OP would have her window without trespassing or anything but the neighbour can still plonk a shed against that wall and totally block the window.

The OP was originally complaining that they were putting things outside the window… in their own garden. They can just continue to do that.

The planning permissions means nothing. Taking legal action isn’t necessary. The neighbour can just use his garden any way he wants, including covering up their window with a shed or tall planter with trellis.

Londongent · 26/04/2023 12:57

Not read the whole thread, but have read all of OP's posts. I cannot believe that your DH thought it would be okay to have a window that opens into your neighbours garden.
They have every right to put a shed right in front of that window as it is in their property.
There is a nasty neighbour here but it isn't your NDN.

GasPanic · 26/04/2023 13:03

Lifesagamethentheytaketheboardaway · 26/04/2023 12:54

Yes, but the neighbour wouldn’t have to take any action. The OP would have her window without trespassing or anything but the neighbour can still plonk a shed against that wall and totally block the window.

The OP was originally complaining that they were putting things outside the window… in their own garden. They can just continue to do that.

The planning permissions means nothing. Taking legal action isn’t necessary. The neighbour can just use his garden any way he wants, including covering up their window with a shed or tall planter with trellis.

Agreed.

But the neighbour won't be able to attach anything to the wall (I say won't - this depends on the nature of the wall but usually you are not allowed to attach anything to your neighbours wall), and the OP will be able to clean the window easily because it is recessed and has sash opening to provide access.

So they will still get the ventilation, the ability to open and close and the ability to clean. The only thing they won't get is the light, which will depend on how much effort the neighbour wants to go to to block it.

ReadersD1gest · 26/04/2023 13:11

GasPanic · 26/04/2023 13:03

Agreed.

But the neighbour won't be able to attach anything to the wall (I say won't - this depends on the nature of the wall but usually you are not allowed to attach anything to your neighbours wall), and the OP will be able to clean the window easily because it is recessed and has sash opening to provide access.

So they will still get the ventilation, the ability to open and close and the ability to clean. The only thing they won't get is the light, which will depend on how much effort the neighbour wants to go to to block it.

How far away do you think this fence would have to be? Sounds like op's house is built right up to her boundary? In which case neighbour's fence can be as close to her wall as the fence posts allow.

LIZS · 26/04/2023 13:19

^The point is, if a recessed sash window is fitted, and pp is granted, what action could be taken ?

There wouldn't be a pp breach because pp was granted. So that route would be closed.

There wouldn't be a trespass because the window would now not open out onto the neighbours land. So that route would be closed.

So unless there was some other sort of legal issue, there would be no basis for bringing action.^^
^
Op still has not stated if they had Buildings Regulations consent for either the garage conversion or window overlooking. Is it clear or opaque glass? The council could enforce on the basis of no br as this is separate to pp.

SofiaSoFar · 26/04/2023 13:28

The neighbour can just use his garden any way he wants, including covering up their window with a shed or tall planter with trellis.

From the description given, it's right on the boundary - I.e. the external bathroom wall is the boundary - in which case the neighbour can choose to build a wall right against OP's wall (party wall regs notwithstanding, with regard to foundations) in which case the OP won't have any light what and wouldn't be able to clean the window without talking it out.

OhwhyOY · 26/04/2023 13:48

I really don't think you need to feel that bad. It might be annoying to your neighbour but realistically what difference does it make to his life to have a window that opens six inches into the very end of his garden? I think you are being too apologetic here - yes DH probably shouldn't have chanced it with the timing of the new buyer not having explicitly agreed it, but if it has been signed off by the council he should not be putting a stick on it and preventing you opening it. He's just being difficult. Life as a neighbour is coming to compromises, you agreed a compromise re window opening limits qnd he's breaking the compromise.

I'd definitely be conciliatory though. How about you say to neighbour- apologies if you didn't realise this was happening, it was agreed with the seller and we made every effort to make sure you were aware. We are really sorry if you weren't made aware, this must be very annoying, which is why we've agreed to limit the range of opening of thr window. But please remove your piece of wood as we've come to an agreement on how far the window can be opened and the wood prevents us being able to do it.

ReadersD1gest · 26/04/2023 13:50

OhwhyOY · 26/04/2023 13:48

I really don't think you need to feel that bad. It might be annoying to your neighbour but realistically what difference does it make to his life to have a window that opens six inches into the very end of his garden? I think you are being too apologetic here - yes DH probably shouldn't have chanced it with the timing of the new buyer not having explicitly agreed it, but if it has been signed off by the council he should not be putting a stick on it and preventing you opening it. He's just being difficult. Life as a neighbour is coming to compromises, you agreed a compromise re window opening limits qnd he's breaking the compromise.

I'd definitely be conciliatory though. How about you say to neighbour- apologies if you didn't realise this was happening, it was agreed with the seller and we made every effort to make sure you were aware. We are really sorry if you weren't made aware, this must be very annoying, which is why we've agreed to limit the range of opening of thr window. But please remove your piece of wood as we've come to an agreement on how far the window can be opened and the wood prevents us being able to do it.

It doesn't really matter what difference it makes to the neighbour's life or whether you think he should just suck it up or not.
There are regulations around these things, and it sounds like op's dh has fallen foul of them.

GasPanic · 26/04/2023 14:08

LIZS · 26/04/2023 13:19

^The point is, if a recessed sash window is fitted, and pp is granted, what action could be taken ?

There wouldn't be a pp breach because pp was granted. So that route would be closed.

There wouldn't be a trespass because the window would now not open out onto the neighbours land. So that route would be closed.

So unless there was some other sort of legal issue, there would be no basis for bringing action.^^
^
Op still has not stated if they had Buildings Regulations consent for either the garage conversion or window overlooking. Is it clear or opaque glass? The council could enforce on the basis of no br as this is separate to pp.

I guess that is correct, although if the window or anything else falls foul of the building regs then it should just be a matter of complying with them. Of course if for some reason the building regs or planning say it should be a non opening window, then of course it needs to be changed.

But atm unless the OP indicates otherwise I don't see why it couldn't be a recessed sash window that could be opened for both ventilation and cleaning. The only thing you wouldn't get is a guarantee of light because of what the neighbour may choose to do, but 2/3 objectives is not that bad. In my opinion anyway - certainly better than bricking up.

Jonei · 26/04/2023 14:10

realistically what difference does it make to his life to have a window that opens six inches into the very end of his garden

His garden, his choice. I wouldn't accept it either.

LIZS · 26/04/2023 14:37

They might refuse a window at all if it overlooks, or require obscured glass if not already. Even then nothing stops ndn putting something up to block it on their land. Op presumably cannot clean or maintain it without access from their side.

DangerNoodles · 26/04/2023 16:17

That's a great update OP, it's never easy to admit to mistakes, especially not on AIBU which is a scary place at the best of times!

I hope you can reconcile with your neighbour and I hope DP takes on board your opinions re the house in the future.

MrsRickAstley · 26/04/2023 16:21

Sorry I'm with neighbour.

DH knew it was a risk and went ahead anyway. Planning permission or not, probs wasn't the best decision.

Skybluepinky · 26/04/2023 16:56

That’s wot happens when u are told no but still go ahead.
Shocked that u weren’t expecting it!

onthefence23 · 26/04/2023 18:02

I would be amazed if that's got pp at least you realise you're in the wrong Blush hope it gets resolved

OhwhyOY · 26/04/2023 18:56

ReadersD1gest · 26/04/2023 13:50

It doesn't really matter what difference it makes to the neighbour's life or whether you think he should just suck it up or not.
There are regulations around these things, and it sounds like op's dh has fallen foul of them.

OP said the council looked at the window and signed it off. Previous owner consented. So what exactly has OP fallen foul of? Seems to me neighbour is just annoyed which is fair enough, but if they've got council sign-off then there's nothing he can do.

OhwhyOY · 26/04/2023 19:03

Also it's really common to have windows that open into people's gardens in adjacent properties, so again not quite sure why this is such a drama for so many people. If you don't want a situation like this to arise then you need to buy a detached property, otherwise you cannot expect 100% privacy. Especially right at the end of your garden. I'd also be very surprised if you are allowed to put up a shed that entirely blocks a neighbour's window. But if OP and her DH are happy to let it go with the neighbour then fair enough, it is always worth maintaining good relations wherever possible and if it doesn't make a big difference to your life better not to get worked up about it.

SofiaSoFar · 26/04/2023 19:08

Also it's really common to have windows that open into people's gardens in adjacent properties...

It most certainly isn't.

SofiaSoFar · 26/04/2023 19:09

I'd also be very surprised if you are allowed to put up a shed that entirely blocks a neighbour's window.

Prepare to be very surprised, then.

MargaretThursday · 26/04/2023 19:55

SofiaSoFar · 26/04/2023 19:08

Also it's really common to have windows that open into people's gardens in adjacent properties...

It most certainly isn't.

I was just thinking that I have never seen a window opening into someone else's garden ever!

ReadersD1gest · 26/04/2023 20:04

OhwhyOY · 26/04/2023 19:03

Also it's really common to have windows that open into people's gardens in adjacent properties, so again not quite sure why this is such a drama for so many people. If you don't want a situation like this to arise then you need to buy a detached property, otherwise you cannot expect 100% privacy. Especially right at the end of your garden. I'd also be very surprised if you are allowed to put up a shed that entirely blocks a neighbour's window. But if OP and her DH are happy to let it go with the neighbour then fair enough, it is always worth maintaining good relations wherever possible and if it doesn't make a big difference to your life better not to get worked up about it.

I don't know where you live, but it really, really isn't.

Jonei · 26/04/2023 20:05

Prepare to be very surprised, then.

🤣 Yes this.