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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

It's a nasty neighbour one with diagram!

489 replies

bathroomwindowargh · 25/04/2023 11:53

So much of this is tedious backstory, but better to contextualise and not drip feed, so here we go. Also I’d prob be wise to change details but on the other hand I can barely get my head round it myself so this is all straight facts. Name changed though!
We live in a weird house, and when I moved in with now DH 15 years ago, as part of a revamp we built a new bathroom in part of the existing garage, bathroom had no window. The back wall of our house and garage and therefore the outer wall of the bathroom is a wall in someone else’s garden. I know I’m gonna have to add a diagram and I will!
The someone else was an elderly neighbour who I really loved and visited a lot, but she died a couple of years ago, and the house was empty for a bit.
This just happened to coincide with us re-doing the bathroom and DH thought it was a chance to put a window in. He didn’t put one in first time round because we asked elderly neighbour’s late DH and he said no, so fair enough we didn’t push it. But this time DH thought the timing meant he could get away with it. I was a bit unsure but he basically just went ahead.
In the process he a) informed the son of late elderly woman that window was happening and could he please tell any buyers.
b) informed the estate agents to please tell any buyers.
c) got planning permission.

Basically he kept in touch with son and EA so we thought all good. Window finished. New neighbours moved in. A couple in their 30s, new to the village (yes we live in a village, so it's rural). The bloke hit the roof at the window, and claims no one told him, but we have our suspicions that he might be telling porkies.
Now the window cannot be seen at all from their house (I know this for a fact because I spent plenty time in their house visiting elderly friend, and I’m well aware what parts of the garden are visible from the house and what are not). This wall is not. It’s not a large window it’s a wide but shallow window from top to bottom window and the glass is not remotely see through, proper obscured glass. But the bloke hates it and is obviously very pissed off.
I have some sympathy for this to be honest, I did think DH was chancing it building the window while the house was empty, even though he played it all by the book.

Now to the meat. Since they moved in bloke and DH are at loggerheads but managing to be sort of surface polite, bloke came round and discussed it with DH and DH agreed to a window limiter so window would only open a couple of inches. Not happy but agreed. I was away so I haven’t met them.
However – DH says bloke was subtly threatening and bullying, and since we agreed to window limiter bloke has put both a shed overlapping one end of the window, a trellis right up almost touching and – worst and most aggressive – a piece of wood against the outside of the window so that effectively we can’t open it all all, not even a centimetre. DH very upset. It does feel like a bullying act of aggression, especially given we agreed to limit the window from our side, and it means we can’t clean the outside of the window by opening it and with the trellis etc DH thinks it’s going to get quickly fouled up with trapped leaves.
Meanwhile the pretence at being civilised carries on apace and DH, who bumps into the bloke fairly regularly (I never seem to see them but I’m away a lot) has invited them both round for coffee and to see the bathroom, to which they’ve just replied they’ll get back to us with times.
DH wants civility to prevail and wants me to re-open the question of a window limiter and could he please kindly remove his fucking aggressive stick from our window (my words, I’m getting angry writing this).

My problem is I’m a post-menopausal harpy and I feel only capable of two modes with this. 1. Play dumb and nice but not get involved. 2. Give it to bloke with all barrels, tell him what I think of his piece of wood and call him out for bullying DH. DH is a totally non-macho pussycat by the way and probably mildly autistic, hence walking into this by blithely building his bloody window.
I could do without ANY of it! By the way there are no other windows on the back of our house except three roof skylights in the upstairs living room.

Help – what should I do? I’ve been putting off even thinking about it but it’s now upon us – the civilised visit – and I’m going to have to meet these people and say something. But what? AIBU to want to fight the bully?
Sorry so long. Really didn’t want to drip feed.

It's a nasty neighbour one with diagram!
OP posts:
Dishwashersaurous · 25/04/2023 13:24

Does planning permission specifically allow an opening window, and how far the window can open?
The opening is over someone else's property so would be typical to be really clear about what is exactly allowed.

Also do you have full planning permission or building control sign off?

DemonicCaveMaggot · 25/04/2023 13:25

You could install a Solartube which is like a periscope to provide natural daylight for precisely situations such as yours where the roof is higher than the ceiling of your bathroom. The existing window could be bricked up and shelves installed in the window sill space for additional storage.

Tunaormayo74 · 25/04/2023 13:26

bathroomwindowargh · 25/04/2023 13:24

We were advised by a solicitor who specialises in party wall work that it's not a party wall because there's no building on neighbour's side. So he literally said it doesn't come under party wall legislation and nothing could be drawn up.
I'm sure he'd have taken our money if there was a valid party wall agreement to be had.

Is it a shared boundary or do you have sole rights to that wall?

ifIwerenotanandroid · 25/04/2023 13:26

Thanks for the amended diagram. Is there any reason the window isn't at the far end of the bathroom?

Ruth98 · 25/04/2023 13:26

bathroomwindowargh · 25/04/2023 11:53

So much of this is tedious backstory, but better to contextualise and not drip feed, so here we go. Also I’d prob be wise to change details but on the other hand I can barely get my head round it myself so this is all straight facts. Name changed though!
We live in a weird house, and when I moved in with now DH 15 years ago, as part of a revamp we built a new bathroom in part of the existing garage, bathroom had no window. The back wall of our house and garage and therefore the outer wall of the bathroom is a wall in someone else’s garden. I know I’m gonna have to add a diagram and I will!
The someone else was an elderly neighbour who I really loved and visited a lot, but she died a couple of years ago, and the house was empty for a bit.
This just happened to coincide with us re-doing the bathroom and DH thought it was a chance to put a window in. He didn’t put one in first time round because we asked elderly neighbour’s late DH and he said no, so fair enough we didn’t push it. But this time DH thought the timing meant he could get away with it. I was a bit unsure but he basically just went ahead.
In the process he a) informed the son of late elderly woman that window was happening and could he please tell any buyers.
b) informed the estate agents to please tell any buyers.
c) got planning permission.

Basically he kept in touch with son and EA so we thought all good. Window finished. New neighbours moved in. A couple in their 30s, new to the village (yes we live in a village, so it's rural). The bloke hit the roof at the window, and claims no one told him, but we have our suspicions that he might be telling porkies.
Now the window cannot be seen at all from their house (I know this for a fact because I spent plenty time in their house visiting elderly friend, and I’m well aware what parts of the garden are visible from the house and what are not). This wall is not. It’s not a large window it’s a wide but shallow window from top to bottom window and the glass is not remotely see through, proper obscured glass. But the bloke hates it and is obviously very pissed off.
I have some sympathy for this to be honest, I did think DH was chancing it building the window while the house was empty, even though he played it all by the book.

Now to the meat. Since they moved in bloke and DH are at loggerheads but managing to be sort of surface polite, bloke came round and discussed it with DH and DH agreed to a window limiter so window would only open a couple of inches. Not happy but agreed. I was away so I haven’t met them.
However – DH says bloke was subtly threatening and bullying, and since we agreed to window limiter bloke has put both a shed overlapping one end of the window, a trellis right up almost touching and – worst and most aggressive – a piece of wood against the outside of the window so that effectively we can’t open it all all, not even a centimetre. DH very upset. It does feel like a bullying act of aggression, especially given we agreed to limit the window from our side, and it means we can’t clean the outside of the window by opening it and with the trellis etc DH thinks it’s going to get quickly fouled up with trapped leaves.
Meanwhile the pretence at being civilised carries on apace and DH, who bumps into the bloke fairly regularly (I never seem to see them but I’m away a lot) has invited them both round for coffee and to see the bathroom, to which they’ve just replied they’ll get back to us with times.
DH wants civility to prevail and wants me to re-open the question of a window limiter and could he please kindly remove his fucking aggressive stick from our window (my words, I’m getting angry writing this).

My problem is I’m a post-menopausal harpy and I feel only capable of two modes with this. 1. Play dumb and nice but not get involved. 2. Give it to bloke with all barrels, tell him what I think of his piece of wood and call him out for bullying DH. DH is a totally non-macho pussycat by the way and probably mildly autistic, hence walking into this by blithely building his bloody window.
I could do without ANY of it! By the way there are no other windows on the back of our house except three roof skylights in the upstairs living room.

Help – what should I do? I’ve been putting off even thinking about it but it’s now upon us – the civilised visit – and I’m going to have to meet these people and say something. But what? AIBU to want to fight the bully?
Sorry so long. Really didn’t want to drip feed.

Seems like he is being OTT given the long garden BUT im in the process of buying a nice big shed to block our neighbour's view into our garden so I have sympathy. They got planning permission whilst our house stood empty (we were in the process of buying, permission was passed just after our searches went through and the building work started not long after we moved in - nice surprise). We now have a (frosted) but fully opening window which looks right over our garden with full view of every part of it and even into our lounge, dining room and kitchen. It's frosted now but it's known that people wait a few years and replace with clear glass / slightly bigger window etc. He's right to have concerns. Perhaps he wanted a secluded patio area / hot tub etc at the bottom of his private garden and didn't bank on someone sticking a window in their to air off their bathroom and toilet after use!!

bathroomwindowargh · 25/04/2023 13:26

piedbeauty · 25/04/2023 13:18

How long is the neighbours garden? Would they be able to see or hear you on your bathroom? Looks like the garden is about 100 feet, from your drawing.

At least 100 feet if not 120.

OP posts:
meatbaseddessert · 25/04/2023 13:27

I've got a 'fuck off long garden' too as you describe your neighbours having but irrespective I would not appreciate wanting to e.g. sit down there or potter or do some gardening while my neighbours are potentially showering or pooing with the window open onto my property! I'd be fencing that or trellissing it immediately. Maybe concreting the fucking window closed from the outside.

TUCKINGFYP0 · 25/04/2023 13:27

gettingoldisshit · 25/04/2023 13:11

I don't see what the neighbours problem is! Its nowhere near or over looking the house and your view from it is very limited! Hes just being a petty, spiteful knob!

I agree . This small obscure window at the end of his garden doesn’t affect his privacy in any way.

Heronwatcher · 25/04/2023 13:28

I’d leave it for a bit. As you say you chanced your arm with the window and it’s hardly surprising. If there is an issue with damp/ mould or problems with leaves then at that point start asking to go into their garden and clean/ open it. In the meantime focus on being a good neighbour and definitely don’t go off at the neighbour- as nothing he’s done is actually much worse IMO.

SofiaSoFar · 25/04/2023 13:28

Neighbour's best bet would be to install a solid fence against the window so it can't be seen through and can't be opened.

Planning permission does not, and cannot, ever extend to giving permission to have a window which encroaches on someone else's property when opened. It cannot redraw boundaries.

Yogazmum · 25/04/2023 13:28

I think he’s being a bit OTT blocking the window but once open, it’s actually over the border into his property so I can see why he’s pissed off.
You might need to go to the CAB for advice as you don’t want a dispute with a neighbour as it affects the sale of your property in the future… you have to declare it.
Other option is to brick it back up and put a vent in, suck up the cost and put it down as a mistake. I can’t really believe you for planning permission for it TBH.

AgathaX · 25/04/2023 13:31

Well, the window was already completed when they moved in, and with the relevant planning permission, so it's really a bit late for him to start complaining about it now. That said, I can understand that he doesn't like it and doesn't want it opening in to his garden.

You said It's too late, window has already cost us and all the inner tiling has been done, to change the window would cost shed loads of money. I think you should get a window company/joiner in to have a look at this. I'm sure it could be changed to an inward opening window with minimum disruption, nothing a bit of sealant wouldn't hide, so I think you're being stubborn over that. Get some quotes and find out for sure what your options are.

ExhaustedPigwidgeon · 25/04/2023 13:31

HowcanIgetoutofthisalive · 25/04/2023 13:05

as do i @ExhaustedPigwidgeon

but if OP and her DH agreed to a window opening minimiser, one wouldn't be able to see barely anything out of their bathroom window would they; that's even if they wanted to look out of it? 🙄

i do get that but for me the bigger issue would be the smells and sounds coming out of the bathroom. If they leave the window open and have a loud poo - or if they leave the extractor fan on after a shower for ages and leave the window open so you can hear that buzzing sound the extractor makes. Or if you’re sitting on your seating area having a glass of wine and you get to watch the neighbour having their evening shower because they forgot you can see in.

ifIwerenotanandroid · 25/04/2023 13:31

TUCKINGFYP0 · 25/04/2023 13:27

I agree . This small obscure window at the end of his garden doesn’t affect his privacy in any way.

See amended diagram on page 5. It seems to be in the middle of the widest part of the garden, not tucked away in a secluded corner at the end of the garden (& who'd want it there anyway?).

Also, the window opens, which is the crux of the problem.

EggInANest · 25/04/2023 13:31

It all comes down to the planning permission.

His solicitor / searches should have identified that there was a pending or successful application for PP for the window. Had the vendor been against it (I would!) the vendor should have objected. Which may or may not have been successful.

The PP probably came with constraints about opaque glass / not opening?

It is yours / your DH's responsibility that you put in an outward opening window onto land that is not yours. The neighbour has no obligation to allow you to open the window onto his land.
There is no Right to Light for bathrooms.
The neighbour has no business getting shirty about a development that was approved in the proper manner by Planning. You and DH have no business being shirty by him not wanting your window opening on to his land.

Find out what his exact concerns are.

Discuss like reasonable grown ups - this is actually possible even when menopausal.

Lifesagamethentheytaketheboardaway · 25/04/2023 13:31

It doesn’t matter what planning permissions allows. It doesn’t matter if you got permission for an opening window. That’s what you have, great. But the neighbours have a garden which they can do what they like with. They can stick a shed or wood or anything else they want on their land and block your window. You still get to have the window. Good for you. But you cannot stop them fully using their land and putting stuff in it.

You get your window, just turns out to be a bit useless because it is looking into and opening into someone else’s land, so they’ll do what they like there.

Heronwatcher · 25/04/2023 13:33

Also quite a lot of your problem seems to be that you think your DH was being bullied. As you say your DH is very mild mannered, could the neighbour just have been pretty pissed off? In any event I don’t think it’s down to you to fight your DHs battles, even if he’s mild mannered could he not have done something himself, like ask him to calm down or say that his tone was a bit off? Again, have the coffee and see what happens.

tatteddear · 25/04/2023 13:33

Having seen the diagram I think the neighbour is being ridiculous. I assume your upstairs windows at the back over look his garden too? And this window is obscured so it doesn't invade his privacy. Just silliness.

ReadersD1gest · 25/04/2023 13:34

Did you really get planning permission, op?!
Your wording is a bit strange - you asked neighbour, they said no. Then neighbour changes so you "thought you'd get away with it".

Grimbelina · 25/04/2023 13:35

You very probably can put a window in the roof of the garage with a shaft below into the bathroom (I have done it), or a sun tunnel. In your case I would either accept I have a non-opening window or would brick it up.

Annfr · 25/04/2023 13:35

I get that it's annoying for the neighbour but...

Solicitors during the buying process should have flagged the planning permission surely?

Delatron · 25/04/2023 13:35

I do think I’m with your neighbour on this one. Even if it’s at the bottom of his garden- he needs to be able to use the whole length with privacy.

I’d brick it back up to be honest. Your DH knew he was taking a chance and do you really want to be on bad terms with neighbours for years? I’m even more on his side with the update that he bought the house when this window wasn’t there.

Your house looks like it has basically been built in the other houses gardens? So you can’t have any windows on one side? That’s tricky but you’ll have to think of creative ways around it rather than pissing off the neighbours! You bought the - in your own worlds - weird house. You’ll have to deal with it. Is moving an option?!

ittakes2 · 25/04/2023 13:35

I would have put in a roof window or a window that could not have opened at all - the guy is not being very nice but either are you guys by putting a window into his backyard. I think the window restrictor was a decent compromise and if it was me I would have asked for it to be a window that could not open at all.

SliceOfCakeCupOfTea · 25/04/2023 13:36

TUCKINGFYP0 · 25/04/2023 13:27

I agree . This small obscure window at the end of his garden doesn’t affect his privacy in any way.

It isn't at the end of his garden, it's in the middle or so

piedbeauty · 25/04/2023 13:37

i do get that but for me the bigger issue would be the smells and sounds coming out of the bathroom. If they leave the window open and have a loud poo - or if they leave the extractor fan on after a shower for ages and leave the window open so you can hear that buzzing sound the extractor makes. Or if you’re sitting on your seating area having a glass of wine and you get to watch the neighbour having their evening shower because they forgot you can see in.

But, @ExhaustedPigwidgeon, with lots of houses you're much much closer to people's bathrooms than the neighbour is here! So is that an issue? It looks like his garden is about 100 feet long. Would he be able to hear anything from there? If you lived in a flat with a garden you'd be much closer to people's bathrooms!