To sell my car to avoid 3 way car sharing?

[3WayCarShareNoThanks]

I own a car, but it used to be my dads car, he sold it to me when he retired on the agreement that he could use it when needed.

It’s worked out fine between us as he only needs it once a week or for appointments, so then I either WFH or he drives me to work and picks me up or we come to another agreement. There’s never been a time when we haven’t managed to find some solution when we’ve both needed the car. We basically live together so it’s been fine (we live on the same road, but he has a garden and I don’t so I often pop round with my DC to use his garden and he pops to mine to use things he doesn’t have like a dishwasher)

That was until December. My brother split with his wife and moved back to our town from a few hours away.

He had to sell his car as he couldn’t afford it on his own. He also had to quit his job as it was a few hours away and he can’t get there without a car.

Now he’s constantly borrowing my car and my dad just says he can. Every job interview or everytime he wants to do anything; meet friends or do a hobby or anything he borrows my car, no consultation with me he just takes it, no thought as to how I’ll get to work or get my DC (I’m a single parent) to their activities or to their dads or to school, I just get told I should “Have more sympathy as I’ve not had to give everything up” or should “Organise to wfh then”.

And my brother never repays the fuel costs either, he literally uses ½ of a tank of fuel and doesn’t even offer to repay me or take it to petrol station and refill it, he just uses it.

I’ve told my dad it needs to stop and he just said it’s his car to so he’ll let my brother use it if he wants to.

I’ve offered to sell it back to them as I can now borrow the money from work to buy myself a slightly newer car anyway but both say they can’t afford it.

I’m tempted to just sell it and buy myself a newer car and not put either of them on the insurance (could even change insurance company to make it easier) but WIBU to do this?

I’m not so bothered about having to WFH, but I’d rather have notice so I can organise to speak to clients by phone or video call rather than having to cancel face to face meetings, and so I can organise for my DC to get to their dads house or hobbies etc by other means - ExH will pick up from me but then I have to collect so it does need to be arranged as we share transport between us, school friends will pick them up on the way passed but I try to then repay the favour, similarly hobbies.

So AIBU?

Tell them the gear box or clutch has broken or about to go and ask if they can contribute to the repairs? When they (inevitably) say they can’t then sell the car, buy one for yourself and step away from this hideous mess.

Oh yes, excellent idea. The car needs work that's more expensive than the car is worth/ not worth doing.

Both your brother and father are being cheeky. Neither of them are considering you or what it would be like if you lost your job because you can’t get to work or are cancelling your clients. But suddenly depriving your father of the car could cause a big family row. Find out how much you can sell it for. Then tell them you’ve had an offer off xxx to sell the car so you can buy a new one. Ask them if they want to buy it. If they don’t, sell it and buy yourself another. That at least gives them some options…

You’ve been had, OP. Your father has zero respect for you and your intelligence.

You all sound too emmeshed with each other to be honest.
With all the regular popping round to use each other's things, I'm not surprised to find the car has become an extension of that and another shared possession.

So yes, sell the car. Personally I think moving away might be a good idea :)

Oh and @3WayCarShareNoThanks make sure that before you do get that new car you get any spare key to your house that either of them might have. They’re such a cheeky pair they might go in looking for the spare key.

And I can tell you from a lot of experience in my day job that a car not being insured does not always deter people from driving it. It’s always “oh it’s just down the road it’s only 5 minutes.” Absolutely the last thing you want is one of them driving your new car, damaging it or worse someone else and then claiming you let them drive it. Sounds a bit prophet of doom but believe me I have seen it happen.

Yeah, I'd offer to sell it back to your dad and brother. If they refuse to buy it, I'd 💯 put a steering lock on it.

It’s difficult because ultimately this is your brother and your dad. But nobody said anything about playing fair.
Let the tank run to 0 every time you use it even if you have to drive around a few times so it’s on the red and you can’t go anywhere without going to the petrol station first without it grinding to a halt.
Organise to have the car serviced garages always seem to find something wrong. get your brother to pick it up and foot the bill - tell him you’ll pay him back later.
Sort out some breakdown cover divide it 3 ways and send him the invoice.
Needs new tyres divide it 3 ways...

Once people have to actually pay for things you’ll be surprised how quickly they find cheaper or free alternatives. This is a game of patience I’m afraid.
good luck xxx

He needs to watch out for IHT. It could easily be seen as a gift with reservation of benefit, especially if he didn't ask full market value for the car. It's a really common thing to do.

You should be able to take them off the insurance easily by phoning or logging in online.

They want to use your car that you paid for, and to be on your insurance and for you to pay for fuel 😂It sounds like you're the parent and they're teenagers.

This.

Both your father and brother being very disrespectful of you.

One final offer for your father to buy back the car and return the money.

If not, then sell it and put neither of them on YOUR insurance.

Your brother is a Cf and your father the same.

It is YOUR car.

You got me. I skimmed over and saw 'we basically live together'. There's further info now about dad not being able to afford yo buy it back, but still, those are the two reasonable choices. The insurance issue has now been addressed too. I still think it's an odd arrangement to say l can borrow your car whenever i like. That's really controlling. I can borrow the car when ever I like then pass it on to a 3rd person (brother) to borrow is crackers!

I would tell them the arrangement is not working and that you need a car solely for your own use so you will be selling the car. Give them first refusal.
If they don't want to buy it then sell it to someone else and get your own car.
I had a similar carry on with my ex and his parents taking ex's car (which we were sharing) but they were doing it deliberately to cause me problems. They had their own fucking car! It meant me missing appointments so I said this isn't working for me and bought a car within a week. Ex was furious as he did not want me to have my own car.... but that's a whole other story!

Moral of the story is, if the arrangement doesn't work for you, find a different solution and in this case it's to sell this blasted car and have one solely for your own use!

OP, even before your brother arrived on the scene this was outstanding cheeky fuckery from your dad.

I could sort of understand agreeing to this arrangement if he had sold the car to you at a substantial discount. But he didn't. Reading between the lines, the only benefit to you from this arrangement was getting him to "pay you back" money he owed you, which otherwise you would probably never have seen again.

Selling you a car at full price should come with no strings attached at all. It's yours. You bought it. Nobody gets to use it unless you say so. Certainly nobody else should be keeping one of the keys and lending it out to other people without your permission.

Go to your dad and say, "This arrangement isn't working. I'm giving you two months notice that I intend to sell the car and buy another one. If you want it, you can buy it back off me for the same price I bought it from you for. Any wear and tear has been mostly caused by you and DB anyway. If you don't want it or can't afford it, you and DB have two months to look into alternative modes of transport. Neither of you will be insured to drive my new car."

Only on mumsnet 😂😂

Get it sold, get your own car, with just you on the insurance.
They are taking the piss out of you.
And get yourself a nice cake too, just because x

It doesn't sound as if your dad gave you a discount on the car's value when he sold it to you, why was he able to get such a good deal from you where he is allowed to use it whenever he wants? I suspect as someone said upthread, this was the only way you were going to get back the money he owed you. It all just sounds very enmeshed, as if he doesn't respect you and treats you as if you are behaving very entitled when you expect basic rights such as your having full access to YOUR car for which YOU paid full price.

You pay the insurance, the petrol, I presume you pay the maintenance, but your dad gets free use of the car. It's already taking advantage of you.

Now, you need to get to work to retain the job by which you support your children, but your father is willing to jeopardise that so that your brother can have free use of a car YOU pay for.

This just seems like another example of men thinking women exist for no other reason than to serve them.

Taking a vehicle without the owner's consent is an offence. Point this out to your brother and be prepared to report him next time he does it.

So - you paid your dad for the car.
Your name is on the keeper's book.
You paid the insurance.
And they borrow the car without asking or filling up.

If they can't afford to buy it back between the two of them, you should part exchange it and get a new one, because they are taking the Mickey now.

@3WayCarShareNoThanks

So the agreement that your dad sells you the car then he can use it - I assume he sold it to you cheap?!?!

You're going to have to be assertive here! Tell your dad that the agreement was that HE can use it, not your brother.

I'd perhaps park the car somewhere else so they can't find it! Have you got a friend nearby-ish that could "borrow" the car, then park it on his/her drive so your dad and brother can't use it??

Or tell your brother he can use it but only if he pays 40p per mile.

@YellowHatt I'm imagining Dad using the car to ferry the pots back and forth 🍽🤣

I think for a start you need to keep a mileage log of the journeys for the next 2 weeks to demonstrate the usage your dad and db have of the car. If you know what the annual running costs are including depreciation and the cost of fuel ie mph you can demonstrate how much their usage is costing you. Or you could look up the mileage allowance

I agree with offering it back to your df and doing as another poster says and selling it. It's quite simple with your needing it for work and the dc's activities you need it most days. It sounds as Dad is subsidising db with housing and OP is subsiding his transport when she has her own responsibilities.

I would say ‘Dad, who owns the car?’ If he replies that he owns it then you ask what was the 2k for then, have you effectively been renting the car?

the trouble is if you really kick up a fuss about it then he could stop you using his garden

Ooh @MatildaTheCat I love the way your mind works. Excellent plan.

Tell him to buy it back!

You know your very close 'friend' from school - the one with the six very noisy, energetic children that she's constantly shouting at? I think you need to tell her about this garden (at your Dad's house, but it's effectively 'yours') that would be perfect for her needs; make sure you stress oto her profusely that she should make full use of it as often as she possibly can - and that she must feel completely free to just turn up unannounced every single time the fancy takes her....

This reminds me of the old joke who gives the neighbour permission to borrow their lawnmower, but on condition that they can only use it on their (the owner's) lawn!

You're in a position where you're paying the full price for the privilege of having your own private car, but you're actually worse off than just getting the bus - as you then have to work to somebody else's schedule and route, but at least it will always be there with a seat for you to make the journey.

I can see how this would have been fine before when, ignoring the fact that he sold it to you in the first place, your Dad was borrowing your car on occasion when you didn't need it; but this is absolutely outrageous. Do I understand that your Brother not only earned good wages for many, many years, without having to pay major/any housing costs, and is still too broke to afford himself a runaround?

Even married couples who share a car still arrange between themselves who is going to use it when. The only way to avoid this is to have your own car for your own exclusive use - which is indeed what you pay for, but you are somehow believed not to even have an equal crack at it, much less exclusive/priority.