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AIBU?

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Original poster

To think that the 'trans issue' isn't a big deal

242 replies

angiec89 · 16/04/2023 22:03

It just blows my mind how many people on here are so hung up over trans women. They're such a small percentage of the population. I have never seen an obviously trans woman in a women's toilet (not that it would particularly bother me if I did), in fact I very rarely see trans women out and about ever.
I'd be happy to listen to explanations but I really don't understand the issue. Surely there are thousands of more pressing issues regarding women's rights and safety currently than the 0.27% of the population (a USA statistic but I assume it's accurate enough) that are trans women. And even then it would be a minuscule proportion of those that are ill-intentioned towards women. It just seems like a big fuss about something so obscure when there are huge issues that deserve more attention.

OP posts:
TakeMe2Insanity · 17/04/2023 16:28

Fuctifin0 · 16/04/2023 22:07

You are wrong.
The trans issue is a big deal and it should be a big deal.

This!

piratypotato · 17/04/2023 16:35

IamnotSethRogan · 17/04/2023 16:16

literalviolence

No I'm saying one person having different views, perhaps born out of ignorance for the whole range of issues, isn't necessarily goady and until the majority of people can discuss these issues without going on the attack, no progress is going to be made. Concerned about women's spaces? You're a terf ! Want to be inclusive to trans people? You're a misogynistic! The majority of people on both "sides" are neither and womens concerns and a meaningful life for trans people can only be balanced when the name calling stops.

It's not namecalling though...if you want to be inclusive to transpeople by welcoming them into the wrong single sex spaces, or removing those single sex spaces, it IS misogynistic. That's not name calling, that's reality.

jellyfrizz · 17/04/2023 17:53

SinnerBoy · 17/04/2023 16:07

jellyfrizz · Today 14:24

And yet many people describe themselves as cis or trans women. I don't know how completely dismissing that is going to further the conversation.

Well, quite a lot of Back rappers use the "n" word in their songs, to describe themselves and their peers; an awful lot of Black people hate the word passionately. Should white people use it as they please, because a small subset of Black people do?

I didn't say it should be used/not used. I said we should be able to talk about why it is harmful to use it. Which I would also say about your example.

SinnerBoy · 17/04/2023 18:08

jellyfrizz · Today 17:53

I didn't say it should be used/not used. I said we should be able to talk about why it is harmful to use it. Which I would also say about your example.

That's entirely fair. So, with many women saying that they find the term offensive, or demeaning, wouldn't it be best to simply eschew it?

Pixiedust1234 · 17/04/2023 20:25

SerafinasGoose · 17/04/2023 16:03

100% of women don't have penises.

Show quote history

I agree with you. Unfortunately the leader of the Labour Party doesn't.

WeBuiltThisBuffetOnSausageRoll · 17/04/2023 21:20

Women should be accepting of men who go through this and be ok with sharing facilities etc., with them as they pose no risk to women.

The vast majority of men aged over 80 are not physically a threat to women, so why not invite them to use women's facilities too?

I mean, just because they still 100% qualify for the men's facilities, just as they have done for the last 75 or so years (except when little and out with their mums) and 80+ years when out with their dads....

VestaTilley · 17/04/2023 21:20

YABVU.

piratypotato · 17/04/2023 22:28

jellyfrizz · 17/04/2023 17:53

I didn't say it should be used/not used. I said we should be able to talk about why it is harmful to use it. Which I would also say about your example.

Show quote history

We have been talking about it, for years. Now we're at the point of being done with talkong about it and moved on to the "just fucking don't" part of the process.

Catuscatish · 17/04/2023 22:49

Conkersinautumn · 17/04/2023 16:07

Some people are insecure enough im themselves to need to lord it over minorities. Some people are just cunts like that.

Some people are misogynistic enough to lord it over women and treat them as less than human and therefore not entitled to safety, dignity and privacy.

Says a lot about those people really, especially when they refer to women who have concerned about the erosion of women's rights as cunts.

literalviolence · 18/04/2023 01:25

IamnotSethRogan · 17/04/2023 16:16

literalviolence

No I'm saying one person having different views, perhaps born out of ignorance for the whole range of issues, isn't necessarily goady and until the majority of people can discuss these issues without going on the attack, no progress is going to be made. Concerned about women's spaces? You're a terf ! Want to be inclusive to trans people? You're a misogynistic! The majority of people on both "sides" are neither and womens concerns and a meaningful life for trans people can only be balanced when the name calling stops.

The phrasing of the OP was goady. It's not how people who genuinely want to discuss phrase things.

You have misunderstood the conversations. It's not about being inclusive to trans people. Being inclusive would mean breaking down barriers to them accessing spaces for their own sex class because of how they present. What some trans people actually want is not inclusiivity it's trampling of women's rights. Genuine desire for inclusivity is not framed as misogynistic. The dressed up pretend inclusively which is actually excluding women is what is rightly called misogynistic. People who try and obscure what's actually being asked foe by pretending it's just people asking to be included (i.e. what you said here) are causing a problem. Describe things accurately if you want to help.

Themaghag · 05/05/2023 17:06

There is nothing in any way scientific about the label 'cis' - it's a term that has been invented and propagated by the trans lobby to 'other' biological females and is used purely to describe them as a mere subset of women, rather than being actual women. There is nothing scientific whatsoever about gender identity. Sex is binary and immutable - no one can ever really change their biological sex no matter what medication or surgeries they undertake.

Nanny0gg · 05/05/2023 17:40

Lolaandbehold · 16/04/2023 23:02

That you, India?

More likely Kirsty Allsop

YouSetTheTone · 05/05/2023 17:58

Would it help to explain why cis is nonsense and offensive by using it in a different (yet equally applicable) context:

‘Cis black’ means someone who is ‘born black’.
‘trans black’ means a white person who feels they’re really black inside. They are way more vulnerable than cis blacks and should be allowed on awards and events designed exclusively for black people in order to mitigate racial inequality.

‘Black face’ (aka drag) is in no way offensive and should be an obvious form of entertainment on mainstream broadcasting services, and also people in ‘black face’ should be hired for advertising products aimed at black people by large corporations like Nike.

Anyone objecting to ‘cis black’ or ‘black face’ is a bigot and deserves to be hounded by protestors in masks with violent slogans.

Anyone who tries to point out they’re not ‘cis black’ they’re ‘black’ is also an evil person who needs to ‘educate themselves’.

Simplestateside · 05/05/2023 20:02

I don't believe that anyone can biologically change their sex, however gender dysphoria has always existed and likely always will. So my question to the anti-trans posters is what do you think should happen to trans people? Should they all be banished/segregated/ostracised? What is it that you actually want to happen for trans people?

nothingcomestonothing · 05/05/2023 21:00

Simplestateside · 05/05/2023 20:02

I don't believe that anyone can biologically change their sex, however gender dysphoria has always existed and likely always will. So my question to the anti-trans posters is what do you think should happen to trans people? Should they all be banished/segregated/ostracised? What is it that you actually want to happen for trans people?

That kind of finger wagging doesn't work as well as it used to. Where are these anti-trans posters of which you speak? Pro woman is not anti trans - unless pro trans is anti woman, is it?

I don't want anything to happen to transpeople, why would I want them banished, segregated or ostracised? They just need to use the words and spaces which accord with their fixed, immutable biological sex. That's all.

TheKeatingFive · 05/05/2023 21:07

So my question to the anti-trans posters is what do you think should happen to trans people? Should they all be banished/segregated/ ostracised? What is it that you actually want to happen for trans people?

What I want is for them to stay out of women's spaces and services. They can campaign for their own spaces and I wholeheartedly support them in that.

That okay with you?

And a total dick move to call women standing up for their rights 'anti trans'.

Simplestateside · 05/05/2023 21:43

No finger wagging, just a genuinely curious about where you think they should go/ what you think they should do.

TheKeatingFive · 05/05/2023 21:44

No finger wagging, just a genuinely curious about where you think they should go/ what you think they should do.

And an answer has been given. It's not rocket science.

BIWI · 05/05/2023 21:54

I don't want genuine trans people to be banished or ostracised.

But I don't want trans women to use the same changing rooms or toilet facilities as biological women.

So I suppose I'd like them to be segregated, in the sense that I think they deserve their own places.

WeBuiltThisBuffetOnSausageRoll · 05/05/2023 22:08

Why do people always try to make out that trans people are being denied their basic rights, whenever people object to them taking away the same rights from other people in order to add them on to their own?

Regular men aren't allowed in women's single-sex facilities, but nobody is trying to make out that people are seeking to banish men from society. Women aren't allowed in men's single-sex facilities, but women aren't claiming hatred or discrimination because of this; the only ones apparently seeking to banish women from society (or at least deny their basic rights) are the aforementioned transwomen who are refusing to respect single-sex female facilities and stay out of them (which is not all transwomen, btw).

It's the same with sports: the false arguments that are made about people wanting to deny trans sportspeople the right to participate - trans people have exactly the same right as everybody else to compete in the appropriate category for their sex.

Ludlow2 · 05/05/2023 22:12

Real women mensturate.

Leave our space.

YouSetTheTone · 05/05/2023 22:13

I think they should express themselves however they like as long as they observe the material reality of sex In circumstances where it matters - eg sports, hospitals, prisons, rape crisis centres. I don’t give a fuck how anyone dresses, or if they wish to act in a way that contradicts the stereotypes of their sex.
But the moment someone tries to legally and practically act as if they are the opposite sex, in circumstances where it negatively affects people of that sex, that’s the line.

Ludlow2 · 05/05/2023 22:16

Even if it doesn't negatively effect.

Leave our space.

Ludlow2 · 05/05/2023 22:18

Simplestateside · 05/05/2023 21:43

No finger wagging, just a genuinely curious about where you think they should go/ what you think they should do.

Use own toilets 🚻 segregated.

Not to share with biologically born women.
EVER.

DojaPhat · 05/05/2023 22:31

Ludlow2 · 05/05/2023 22:12

Real women mensturate.

Leave our space.

Oh really...