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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

Original poster

To think that the 'trans issue' isn't a big deal

242 replies

angiec89 · 16/04/2023 22:03

It just blows my mind how many people on here are so hung up over trans women. They're such a small percentage of the population. I have never seen an obviously trans woman in a women's toilet (not that it would particularly bother me if I did), in fact I very rarely see trans women out and about ever.
I'd be happy to listen to explanations but I really don't understand the issue. Surely there are thousands of more pressing issues regarding women's rights and safety currently than the 0.27% of the population (a USA statistic but I assume it's accurate enough) that are trans women. And even then it would be a minuscule proportion of those that are ill-intentioned towards women. It just seems like a big fuss about something so obscure when there are huge issues that deserve more attention.

OP posts:
literalviolence · 17/04/2023 10:31

Stellanotbud · 17/04/2023 09:27

@Samphiredragonfly I do feel though that Rishi as a father of little girls he will be very invested in the future of girls.
In Ireland our leader Leo Varadkar & the Minister for Children Roderic O Gorman are both gay men & are very pro trans. We don't have a hope of the Gender Recognition Act being abolished while they're in office..

I don't hope they'd be willing to date a woman who says they're trans.

literalviolence · 17/04/2023 10:36

Sphagnummoss · 17/04/2023 02:16

At the moment, there are no legal restrictions on men coming into women's toilets. Proposed changes to the law will actually protect women.

Under the Gender Recognition Act someone who can prove who they are with an identity document or gender recognition certificate has committed no offence. Anyone who does the same, claiming they are female but without grc, then they can be prosecuted for fraud.

At the same time, as a woman with quite a masculine physique, I don't want to be questioned about my genitals when using the toilet or getting changed.

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It's not just about toilets and it's not just about genitals. There are currently trans identifying men in women's prisons
GRA changes would make it easier for men to don't that. Men sexually assault at vastly greater numbers. Men's genitals gonhand in hand with privilege and physical power. Etc .Reducing things to genitals and toilets is a poor attempt to obfuscate the issues.

mainsfed · 17/04/2023 10:41

Lockheart · 17/04/2023 08:58

Some posters have literally said that on this thread:

Yes you are right, there is a very low number of trans women. All the more ridiculous that women's rights are being trampled, laws changed and science rubbished, to validate the kink of a vanishingly small number of entitled men.

(See page 4).

Show quote history

That quote doesn't call trans women perverts. 'Entitled men' probably refers to men who identify as women for their own gain not because they're trans.

Zebedee55 · 17/04/2023 10:44

BingoLingFucker · 16/04/2023 22:13

YABU.
I ask myself how such a small population has created so much change in a relatively short space of time.
For all intents and purposes women can no longer have single sex spaces. TW are in female prisons, hospital wards, sports etc.
When JKR funded Scotland’s only female only rape shelter (every other shelter is mixed sex), there was outrage because female only nowadays is transphobic.
Women’s language is being changed. Cervical cancer campaigns often miss out the word woman completely, even though clarity of language is essential, as research shows that around 40% of women don’t know that they have a cervix.
Prostate cancer campaigns are very clearly aimed at men.
If this doesn’t show the misogyny in the movement I don’t know what does.
If women complain about this they face threats (death, rape, violence), many have lost their jobs. A swimmer in the US was recently assaulted and held against her will by TRAs because she dared to have an opinion on being beaten in an elite race by a man.
You might not think it affects you, but the effects of making women’s rights anyone’s rights will be deeply felt by many more women to come, when they have to toe the line and follow the gender script.
It’s frightening.

This. It is a problem. Women (biological) are being sidelined. 🙁

Ourladycheesusedatum · 17/04/2023 11:00

angiec89 · 16/04/2023 22:25

Is it the actual trans women who experience gender dysphoria and undergo hormones and surgery that bother you? Or is it the pretenders that lie?
Cisgender women have it tough but the mortality rate of trans women is incredibly high, and 5 times the rate of trans men for perspective.

Most dont undergo hormones and surgery. Why would they have to?
To say the words "i am a woman" is enough.

You wont believe me obviously so look up Pippa bunce who is woman some days, man other days. Look up Alex drummond and how proud they is of their beard. Theres more but that will get you started.

At the swimming pool changing room door how will we be able to tell the pretenders from the real thing?

Cis is a slur, kindly do not use that word. We are women.

The mortality rate has been hijacked, I forget where from now, but to put in perspective
A woman in the UK dies at the hands of a man at a rate of 2 per week.
In the last 12 years, 11 transwomen have died, some at the hands of other transwomen. If they truly were at risk of dying by murder, there would be many more.

Ourladycheesusedatum · 17/04/2023 11:03

angiec89 · 16/04/2023 22:37

Crikey who decided that was a slur?
It's a scientific term.

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Women born decided it was a slur. We dont like to be a subset of our sex class, so now you know, please dont use it for us. You are welcome to call yourself anything. But we do not like it.

Needanewnamebeingwatched · 17/04/2023 11:05

BIWI · 16/04/2023 22:28

I am not a cisgender woman @angiec89. I am a woman. I need no other description.

This

Cis was coined by a pedophile, I am a women.

Stellanotbud · 17/04/2023 11:06

Yep a woman here too. Any one born with a penis is a man & always will be.

Nordicrain · 17/04/2023 11:08

What I don't get is why this only happens this way around. Why do we never hear about trans people wanting access to men's things?

I was listening to a non-binary person talking about "inclusive" language - relating to birth in this case - and how this wasn't to erase women, it was in solidarity with them. Except all the examples he gave were, literally, about removing references to women.

Noone is fighting to have nhs advice about prostate cancer of viagra rewritten.

literalviolence · 17/04/2023 11:13

mainsfed · 17/04/2023 10:41

That quote doesn't call trans women perverts. 'Entitled men' probably refers to men who identify as women for their own gain not because they're trans.

Show quote history

Any man who tries to access women's spaces is entitled. Trans or not. A TWnwho calls themselves such and stays out of all women's spaces is fine. Others are doing damage.

Ereshkigalangcleg · 17/04/2023 11:25

It's a scientific description for women who aren't trans.

Haha no. Male people aren't women, so if it were simply a neutral description meaning "woman who doesn't identify as transgender", a "trans woman" would be a biological adult female person who identifies as a man. It doesn't mean that, and it isn't neutral, so it's your ideological term.

BorgQueen · 17/04/2023 11:26

There are Women in prison right now, being raped by and having to shower/ share cells with Men who say they are Trans. Some of these Women are getting pregnant and are in US states that outlaw abortion. It’s psychological and physical torture that is supposedly outlawed under the Geneva convention.
There are Women in the Military ( where sexual assault is commonplace) being forced to shower and share rooms with Men who id as Trans. If they complain they are disciplined and could lose their careers.
Teenage Girls in Guides/Scouts are sharing bathrooms and dormitories with Boys who say they are Girls, without the knowledge or consent of their parents.
How many raped, traumatised and abused Women and Girls are acceptable to you to ensure that Mens’ feelings are prioritised?
If the number is higher than zero then you are a fucking monster.

FOJN · 17/04/2023 11:29

There are Women in prison right now, being raped by and having to shower/ share cells with Men who say they are Trans. Some of these Women are getting pregnant and are in US states that outlaw abortion. It’s psychological and physical torture that is supposedly outlawed under the Geneva convention.

Quite and the "be kind" crowd don't give a shit.

https://youtube.com/shorts/mRBpoR-iF20?feature=share

Lockheart · 17/04/2023 12:24

literalviolence · 17/04/2023 10:30

Which is not saying that they are all perverts or have a hidden agenda. So your point is????

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It describes transwoman as all having a kink.

Lockheart · 17/04/2023 12:25

mainsfed · 17/04/2023 10:41

That quote doesn't call trans women perverts. 'Entitled men' probably refers to men who identify as women for their own gain not because they're trans.

Show quote history

Then why describe them all as having a kink?

literalviolence · 17/04/2023 12:34

Lockheart · 17/04/2023 12:24

It describes transwoman as all having a kink.

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no it doesn't!!! where on earth are you getting that from???!!!!

literalviolence · 17/04/2023 12:43

To be clear Lockheart, loads of people have kinks. Kinky sex is mainstream. Have you ever been in a ann summer's shop? Or bought anything on love honey? To try and make out this is saying all TW are perverts is grasping to a ridiculous extent. It's laughable and downright silly.

literalviolence · 17/04/2023 12:50

And further given what appalling human beings some TRA are, one example of a person saying TW are all perverts is much more likely to come from them then from GC women - a diversion strategy in the absence of meaningful points. The solution is easy and has been suggested by feminists for decades. Break down the stereotypes about gender. This sets the scene for men in dresses, and/ or men who identify as trans to feel more comfortable in their toilets. TW don't all like that solution though because as someone said the issue is not that TW want to use the women's toilets, it's that they want to use the women - for validation. There can be no compromise over that because it's abuse. Anyone asking for compromise over that is saying awful things and should be ashamed of themselves.

scubaqueen1 · 17/04/2023 12:53

OP are you a man?

IamnotSethRogan · 17/04/2023 12:54

I would say some of the responses you're having on this thread is exactly the same as how people shut down debate with people who are raising concerns for womens rights. The whole thing has gotten completely out of control. People raise concerns and everyone shouts to shut it down. I don't think your post was goady and I think you wanted to have a proper conversation but the topic is so loaded for people. Until we can start talking about how to protect everyones rights like adults, this debate is going to get absolutely no where. However I do feel part of the anger does come from women feeling like they're being ignored on matters that directly affect them.

piratypotato · 17/04/2023 13:00

angiec89 · 16/04/2023 22:34

That statistic was from a study in the US

I didn't say all women were cis. Only the women born as women. It's a scientific description for women who aren't trans.

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All women were born as women. The scientific description of someone born male is a MAN.

Lockheart · 17/04/2023 13:02

literalviolence · 17/04/2023 12:34

no it doesn't!!! where on earth are you getting that from???!!!!

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Oh I don't know, it must have been the part that said "validate the kink of a vanishingly small number of men" after saying "yes, the numbers of transwomen are very low".

Lockheart · 17/04/2023 13:03

*kink!

Beowulfa · 17/04/2023 13:03

It's a big issue if you care about any of the following:

-women's rights
-homophobia
-the health of autistic teenaged girls
-the health of those with learning disabilities or for whom English is not their first language
-accurate data collection
-medical ethics
-scientific literacy
-the honesty and common sense of our elected leaders and those in positions of policy influence