To think that the 'trans issue' isn't a big deal

[angiec89]

It just blows my mind how many people on here are so hung up over trans women. They're such a small percentage of the population. I have never seen an obviously trans woman in a women's toilet (not that it would particularly bother me if I did), in fact I very rarely see trans women out and about ever.
I'd be happy to listen to explanations but I really don't understand the issue. Surely there are thousands of more pressing issues regarding women's rights and safety currently than the 0.27% of the population (a USA statistic but I assume it's accurate enough) that are trans women. And even then it would be a minuscule proportion of those that are ill-intentioned towards women. It just seems like a big fuss about something so obscure when there are huge issues that deserve more attention.

I'll bite. What are your thoughts on transwomen being housed in women's prisons? What are your thoughts on intact, muscular men playing full-contact rugby against 9st teenage women? What are your views on sex offenders being able to claim that they are trans, and being able to change their name?

It's not about "peeing in peace ", it's much more insidious than that.

But this is the crux of the matter. At present, a "pervy" guy who was in the women's loos, changing rooms etc, could legitimately be challenged, whether by other women, or security, or the Police. If any man says he's a woman, and we have to accept this, then you lose any right to challenge any pervert in a female-only space. So the risk to women is multiplied significantly.

Yes,it IS a big deal.

You have massively missed the point

When 13 year old girls are binding their chest, causing actual physical damage to their bodies, then yes it's a fucking issue. See also men being allowed to access women's toilets and changing rooms because they stick on a frock.

Yes, women are very upset about this. And, if you're not, it's probably because you haven't thought about it enough.

That's understandable. But surely men could do that anyway? There's nobody standing outside checking, any perv could just walk in if he so desired to

Exactly as DappledOliveGroves said, but to add - you don't just lose the right to challenge a male-bodied person in women's toilets, but YOU become the bad guy for being such an 'intolerant bigot' to do so.

It's already standard procedure in a lot of organisations that, if a woman or girl objects to being forced to share female facilities with males, the 'solution' is that SHE must find alternative arrangements and yield her right to use female facilities to a male-bodied person who wants to use them instead, even though that person has perfectly good and appropriate equivalent facilities already provided.

The problem is when people use the existence of trans people to pretend gender is more than an oppressive social construct. i.e. to pretend that boys and girls have some imaginary, elusive essence that makes girls worse at maths or boys unable to grasp basic emotional understanding. Very, very damaging misconceptions feminists have fought and fought to disprove, now swept aside.

I have no problems with anyone identifying as whatever they like. I'm not bothered by people of different sexes but identifying as an outdated and offensive "feminine" or "masculine" social construct using the same public loo as me (god knows there are enough real females pandering to offensive"feminine" stereotypes and far too many real men dressed as horrific "masculine" stereotypes). But...big hut...I respect and care that many women have good reason to feel scared and upset by it and they deserve to have their needs listened to.

What I do object to is people enforcing gender essentialism on us.

The view that someone can somehow be an opposite sex while biologically just jot being that sex is based on the ideology that males and females have ingrained, essential, biological character differences, different brains or something ludicrous and made up, and is reactionary, regressive and dangerous.

Is it the actual trans women who experience gender dysphoria and undergo hormones and surgery that bother you? Or is it the pretenders that lie?
Cisgender women have it tough but the mortality rate of trans women is incredibly high, and 5 times the rate of trans men for perspective.

Apologies for typos, small phone screen.

Definitely agree with this. Thank you.

I am not a cisgender woman @angiec89. I am a woman. I need no other description.

👏👏

Sorry solid

What happens if the man says he's a trans man and is biologically female?

100% agree with you.

Normal women who don't need to label themselves also have it tough. Don't assume all women are cis. It's ascribing an identity to them which many find regressive and insulting. You need to look closer at thr data re TW risk because its skewed by South American sex workers and you're not making a valid comparison. You also need to know that most TW do not undergo surgery and you'd be labelled a TERF for suggesting that they're not actual TW. TW who'd you label as valid still have no place in women's spaces.

"Sorry solid"

WTAF does that mean?

My daughter is an athlete.

She will never represent her country again if they don't ensure that male bodied people can't compete with women.

She is also at physical risk due to the size and weight differential, and she plays a non-contact sport.

She also shouldn't have to see a male body, with male genitalia, in her changing areas.

YANBU. There's a bunch of people on Mumsnet who try to make it a big deal, though.

😂😂

MRA at it's finest!