To think that the 'trans issue' isn't a big deal

[angiec89]

It just blows my mind how many people on here are so hung up over trans women. They're such a small percentage of the population. I have never seen an obviously trans woman in a women's toilet (not that it would particularly bother me if I did), in fact I very rarely see trans women out and about ever.
I'd be happy to listen to explanations but I really don't understand the issue. Surely there are thousands of more pressing issues regarding women's rights and safety currently than the 0.27% of the population (a USA statistic but I assume it's accurate enough) that are trans women. And even then it would be a minuscule proportion of those that are ill-intentioned towards women. It just seems like a big fuss about something so obscure when there are huge issues that deserve more attention.

If there is one group who don’t deserve their ‘rights’ protecting, it’s AGP Men.

That is not saying they're perverts or have a hidden agenda is it? You are not making the point you are. Rather you are showcasing the attempts people make to pretend that pro women stances are anti trans.

Some men have gender dysphoria and genuinely want to live as the opposite sex. They respect women as they wish to become and just want to fit in with them. They usually look like ordinary women and use female facilities discreetly like biological women do. Women should be accepting of men who go through this and be ok with sharing facilities etc., with them as they pose no risk to women.

Then there's autogynephilia. These are men who have a need to be validated and accepted as women by women because they still want to be dominant over women. They tend to over exaggerate their "womanliness", enjoy talking about their girl dicks, tampons etc., and command the space in female facilities by showing they are men using said facilities. This is why they get their penises out in female spaces, talk loudly about how sexy they feel wearing underwear in lingerie fitting rooms and things like that. They're also more likely to physically harm women. This is what women find threatening and feel uncomfortable with as they feel their female spaces are no longer safe. If women complain about this, they get branded bigots, transphobes and can be threatened with violence.

Not all men harm women, but a number of men do, so for the greater good, men are excluded from female spaces. It is scary that men can now identify as women without being diagnosed as having gender dysphoria because some men use this to harm women. This has been shown with countless stories of women and children being harmed in female toilets, changing rooms, hospital wards and so on by women with penises.

We don't see the same patterns of behaviour with female to male trans. Women tend not to harm men, so the female to male trans tend to be the ones with gender dysphoria who do genuinely want to be men. They respect men and don't harm them in male spaces.

Unfortunately the autogynephilia are the ones shouting the loudest at the moment. This makes it much harder for the people with gender dysphoria as they get tarred with the same brush which is hugely unfair as they are not the ones who are causing harm to people.

You think saying that women having no female only spaces, protected sports, decent healthcare etc is not goady. Ok then. Women feel like they're being ignored because they are being ignored. Trans people are not asking for rights on the whole, they are asking for privileges. That's the problem. It is not a right for any man to be in a woman's space.

"Women born as women?" Do you mean woman as sex or gender?

I hesitate to describe myself as a woman these days. I am female but don't have a gender identity. I don't want to perform femininity or have those gender stereotypes attached to my sex. If I say I am a woman am I accepting the gender identity as well as sex? I don't want the gender identity so I wouldn't call myself cis.

What word is there to describe myself that doesn't have gender baggage?

Why are you lifting that gender baggage.

You are a woman, an adult human female. This does not mean "performing femininity" or accepting any stereotypes, it's just what you are. Stop attaching such nonsense to it. You;re a woman, same as every other woman,

My point is that most women are not cis - and not because they claim a trans identity.

Some women like to call themselves "cis" as part of their ideology. That's up to them. The vast majority of women don't consider themselves "cis" because it's a meaningless ideological term. I don't consider my soul either, because it's not a concept that is relevant to me.

You've confused yourself. We are not "cis" because we don't need a qualifier, nobody does. There is just one word: WOMAN.

I'm a woman, you're a woman. Nothing changes or alters that, no "gender identity" matters.

OTOH "transwoman" literally means NOT-A-WOMAN. A transwoman is a man. And always will be .

Your question was what word describes you that doesn't have the gender baggage, the same word describes you whether you choose to buy into the gender baggage or not. It's still WOMAN.

And yet many people describe themselves as cis or trans women. I don't know how completely dismissing that is going to further the conversation.

Isn't it better to examine what is meant by cis and trans and explain why gender ideology is damaging for many?

How is indulging it going to further any conversation?

We don't need to examine what is meant by cis and trans, we know why people use it. We also know it's total nonsense. Cisgender is meaningless. Sex it was matters, not gender. Why waste time talking nonsense about meaningless words?

I don't mind peope calling themselves cos. But I don't and I don't know many people who do. It's a niche identity therefore not a useful or respectful term to describe all women. By your reasoning we should just call TW men because most men call themselves that. Indeed there are many more women who find cis an offensive term than men who find 'men' an offensive term.

So is male, but you wouldn’t want us to use that, would you?

Cis not cos. Bloody autocorrect.

Exactly. I hate the fact that when I say I'm a woman some people wrongly and disrespectfully think I am gender conforming and aim to be like some hideous 1950s housewife. It's an aggression on their part. Woman needs to be entirely biological and people can use other words if the other stuff is important to them.

The Trans issue is a massive deal. Why should a tiny minuscule fraction of society dictate what female areas they can access, what female sports they can compete and dominate in because they want their ideology validated. Why do the rights of men take precedence over the rights of women???
I’ve worked with a Trans identified woman and no female at work wanted to use the ladies toilets or changing rooms which he frequented and he had more rights than XX women. I’m on the side of Women and want to see separate spaces for trans, the vast majority of women don’t want their safe spaces and sports compromised.

Some men have gender dysphoria and genuinely want to live as the opposite sex. They respect women as they wish to become and just want to fit in with them. They usually look like ordinary women and use female facilities discreetly like biological women do. Women should be accepting of men who go through this and be ok with sharing facilities etc., with them as they pose no risk to women.

I don't agree. It's not for you or anyone to state that women 'should' be accepting of dysphoric men in our single sex spaces. My rights aren't yours to give away. You haven't provided any evidence that gender dysphoric/old school transexuals/truscum respect women or pose no risk, and even if you could evidence that, so what? Women's spaces are women's spaces, they're not spaces for people who really really wish to be women, or for people who pose no risk to women, they are for women only.

And yet.....

It's a scientific description for women who aren't trans.

Bollocks. It is a totally non-scientific, pseudo-psychological term for a non-scientific construct. The scientific term for every human adult female is woman. The non-scientific term for a human adult male who would like to pretend they are female is transwoman. No one, scientist or otherwise needs another term for an actual, real woman.

and yet what?

100% of women don't have penises.

Some people are insecure enough im themselves to need to lord it over minorities. Some people are just cunts like that.

jellyfrizz · Today 14:24

And yet many people describe themselves as cis or trans women. I don't know how completely dismissing that is going to further the conversation.

Well, quite a lot of Back rappers use the "n" word in their songs, to describe themselves and their peers; an awful lot of Black people hate the word passionately. Should white people use it as they please, because a small subset of Black people do?

And some people think they should have whatever they want no matter the cost to others, because some people are just cunts like that.

literalviolence

No I'm saying one person having different views, perhaps born out of ignorance for the whole range of issues, isn't necessarily goady and until the majority of people can discuss these issues without going on the attack, no progress is going to be made. Concerned about women's spaces? You're a terf ! Want to be inclusive to trans people? You're a misogynistic! The majority of people on both "sides" are neither and womens concerns and a meaningful life for trans people can only be balanced when the name calling stops.