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Original poster

Is Shamima Begum a victim or a criminal?

558 replies

ShamimaBegu · 28/03/2023 10:34

Just listened to the podcasts about Shamima Begum. How can Shamima Begum not be viewed as a victim of grooming and sex trafficking? How on earth would a 15 year old got to Syria without adults making it happen?
She was married off and became pregnant on multiple occasions. She surely is as much a victim as a criminal?

OP posts:
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5
Ylvamoon · 28/03/2023 10:40

I don't know much about her story other than the main news items.

I think a bit of both. At the time she was recruited, it was a well known fact how ISIS gromed young people.

So she/ her friends/ family ect should have been aware.
However, she was only 15, wanting to be free from the constraints of being a UK teenager and fitting in somewhere.

Mayorquimby2 · 28/03/2023 10:42

Both

Jeannieofthelamp · 28/03/2023 10:43

I 100% agree with you OP. When 15 year olds are sexually or criminally exploited the expectation is nowadays that they will be treated as victims and supported, not punished. But when it is religious radicalisation they are still seen as responsible for their own actions. As a society we have a long way to go to understanding that children who have been radicalised are victims of grooming too. Islamophobia plays a big part too.

toastofthetown · 28/03/2023 10:46

Someone can be both. I’m not knowledgeable about Shamima Begum to say for certain about her case, but it’s not an either/or and assuming that someone who has victimised other people cannot have been a victim themselves (and acknowledging the role that might have led in their offending) doesn’t help anyone.

Ijustdontcare · 28/03/2023 10:46

Jeannieofthelamp · 28/03/2023 10:43

I 100% agree with you OP. When 15 year olds are sexually or criminally exploited the expectation is nowadays that they will be treated as victims and supported, not punished. But when it is religious radicalisation they are still seen as responsible for their own actions. As a society we have a long way to go to understanding that children who have been radicalised are victims of grooming too. Islamophobia plays a big part too.

Or maybe we treat someone who mutilated and murdered other women for fun and has shown no remorse past crocodile tears as the criminal they are.

mycoffeecup · 28/03/2023 10:46

It's very complex. Would highly recommend this podcast which delves into the issues with huge sensitivity
https://www.bbc.co.uk/sounds/brand/p08yblkf

BBC Sounds - I'm Not a Monster - Available Episodes

Listen to the latest episodes of I'm Not a Monster on BBC Sounds

https://www.bbc.co.uk/sounds/brand/p08yblkf

bilbodog · 28/03/2023 10:47

I think she should be treated as a victim - she was groomed at 15 and married as soon as she arrived in syria - and once there she would not have been able to change her mind and come back. If she hadnt towed the line she would have been killed.

Equally being interviewed in the camp she may not be able to say how she really feels as there will be ISIS people there as well and she could still be killed. She was 15! We already know the brain doesnt fully mature until mid twenties.

all those women and children should be allowed back and dealt with here - it is very cruel.

mycoffeecup · 28/03/2023 10:47

Ijustdontcare · 28/03/2023 10:46

Or maybe we treat someone who mutilated and murdered other women for fun and has shown no remorse past crocodile tears as the criminal they are.

Show quote history

There is zero evidence that she did anything in ISIS other than stay home and have 3 babies and 2 miscarriages. All the evidence available is that her husband wouldn't let her out and she wasn't an active participant. It doesn't excuse going, of course.

Redebs · 28/03/2023 10:48

She is a victim.

More so are her poor dead babies.

RudsyFarmer · 28/03/2023 10:48

I don’t know enough about it. Personally I think she is both victim and perpetrator which isn’t uncommon.

Lamelie · 28/03/2023 10:49

Definitely victim.

billthefrog · 28/03/2023 10:50

She is both

Divorcedalongtime · 28/03/2023 10:52

Victim. She has been vilified in the press and made an example of for sure. Not sure they could back down in this now, too many of the “make Britain great again” people support this.

Jeannieofthelamp · 28/03/2023 10:53

@Ijustdontcare It's extremely unlikely she did those things. Very few women fought for Islamic state at all because that's not a woman's role in their society. She also doesn't come across to me as the sort to strike out on her own as a fighter - she seems very passive and biddable (which is partly why she was and still is so vulnerable).

Colette · 28/03/2023 10:53

I’d also recommend the podcast- I think she is a victim

luckylavender · 28/03/2023 10:53

Both

FilthyforFirth · 28/03/2023 10:54

I feel more criminal than victim. I dont really want her back in the UK as I am not sure she isn't still radicalised.

DojaPhat · 28/03/2023 10:55

Shamima's main issue is that she isn't white.

Allthegoodnamesarechosen · 28/03/2023 10:55

What is the BBC’s fascination with this? They seem to be determined to push the victim role, and get her back to England.

I suppose part of it is their utter hatred and contempt for the bulk of the British population, but there seems to be a bit more to it than that. Yeah , tin hat, I know.

she was offered a way out of Syria before it all went so wrong for ISIs, her sister is on tape offering to get her out , saying that her family can arrange it. She preferred to stay, though.

jihadi schoolgirl who fled Britain to join ISIS in Syria said seeing the severed heads of terror victims dumped in bins "didn't faze me at all".
Shamima Begum, 19, described spotting the gory aftermath of extremist executions, but calmly brushed off the experience as part of her "normal" life with fundamentalists.’

Life in UK must seem a bit dull…..

Nap1983 · 28/03/2023 10:55

I think both, she was a child, but at 15 I knew my own mind and would have known this was wrong and the consequences. I listened to the podcast and watched the TV programme. I did however think she came across as not thinking she’d done much wrong and that she’d do it again..

Untitledsquatboulder · 28/03/2023 10:55

She's certainly a victim. You'd need a trial to say whether she's a criminal. Other than generally "supporting Isis" I've not heard specifics about what she's done so will reserve judgement.

TrishM80 · 28/03/2023 10:55

Criminal. She's not as sweet and innocent as she's trying to make out.

Kanaloa · 28/03/2023 10:56

You can be a victim and a criminal. She was a victim of grooming and extremism. She also is accused of committing crimes. Both things are possible.

donttellmehesalive · 28/03/2023 10:56

She's an example though now isn't she. We can't be seen to allow teens to join a terrorist group and then return home as a victim.

PartTimer923 · 28/03/2023 10:59

I think she is a victim. And if a white girl had been trafficked at 15 would she have lost her citizenship? Absolutely not.

What crime has she committed? If she has committed a crime, shouldn't she face a criminal court to determine this? If found guilty, she should serve the appropriate penalty, but to have no trial and to never be able to serve her time/be held accountable/be able to redeem herself? Even murderers have an end date to their punishment.