Page 6 | Is Shamima Begum a victim or a criminal?

ShamimaBegu · 2023-03-28T09:34:00+00:00

Just listened to the podcasts about Shamima Begum. How can Shamima Begum not be viewed as a victim of grooming and sex trafficking? How on earth would a 15 year old got to Syria without adults making it happen? She was married off and became pregnant on multiple occasions. She surely is as much a victim as a criminal?

Itsnotyourbusiness · 28/03/2023 13:56

mycoffeecup · 28/03/2023 13:03

It doesn't really matter in terms of what happens now - they are both dead

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I guess we won’t ever know then, perhaps all three had issues perhaps none perhaps just one. I was just going by her presentation in interviews and the fact she did what she did

Tinkerbyebye · 28/03/2023 14:01

She’s a criminal,

ChangedmynameagainforChristmas · 28/03/2023 14:03

She plays to the gallery any script - any gallery - anyone who is listening.

Remember she agreed with the Manchester bombings. She is fully vile

Dotjones · 28/03/2023 14:04

She's a criminal, plain and simple, and deserves to be stripped of her citizenship. A person like her has no place in our society. Is it right to expect another country to give her residence? No, but that doesn't mean she has to be allowed to return here.

To me there's no issue with making someone stateless if their behaviour justifies it. So she has no right to go anywhere, so what, if no country will accept her that just rams home the message that what she did was unacceptable to every country in the world.

Citizenship shouldn't be considered an automatic right - if it were, I could just choose to become a citizen of the US or Australia and someone in Madagascar could just choose to become a citizen here.

Rapapampam · 28/03/2023 14:10

Now there’s some vids on YouTube about a Yazidi sex slave who was eyewitness to SB’s true behaviour in Syria.
Anyone who is defending this dumb, violent criminal is blind and equally dumb. Who in their right mind is thinking about joining a terrorist group at 15? At that age your biggest worry is your grades and whether your crush likes you, not an effing terrorist organisation.
You join a terrorist group, then don’t expect to be taken back to the UK. She can live in no-man’s land her whole life for all I care.

DrinkFeckArseBrick · 28/03/2023 14:12

If you replace 'ISIS' with a religious cult where the men rape women...I think youd get a very different response here.

I think people should listen to the podcasts which give facts rather than just respond with emotion.

I am not sure of the legalities of the situation but I think it's very dodgy to remove citizenship when someone was so young when they committed the crime, when the crime hasnt been proven in a uk court, and where they dont have dual nationality, and where we havent removed citizenship from other people who have committed similar offences.

Also, practically speaking, what is she going to do if she was back? The security services are going to be all over her

Perfect28 · 28/03/2023 14:12

For everyone slamming her, should we strip all criminals of their citizenship too?

Teafor1please · 28/03/2023 14:15

Why should Syria have her ? Why do they have to have the world's criminals ?

The police failed her initially. The school raised concerns and the police said the girls were at no risk of going abroad.

BigMandsTattooPortfolio · 28/03/2023 14:19

My sympathy lies with the young Yazidi victims of the violent, misogynistic cult she was a member of.

DrinkFeckArseBrick · 28/03/2023 14:20

"Shamima didn’t attempt to come home when she realised it wasn’t all it was made out to be! When she experienced the first horrible event over there she never reached out to try and return… but she did reach out to recruit others."

People who even assisted people trying to leave, were brutally tortured and killed. Her friends who did want to leave, didn't dare attempt it, because others who tried were publicly killed as examples

You can blame her for many things but not attempting to leave when she had an abusive husband (that we know from here is hard enough to leave when there is support available) and there was a very high chance of being killed is not fair.

DrinkFeckArseBrick · 28/03/2023 14:22

"My sympathy lies with the young Yazidi victims of the violent, misogynistic cult she was a member of."

I agree with this. But think you can have sympathy with others, and still want to see proper legal process followed, simultaneously (without 'supporting' Shamima or agreeing or downplaying what she did).

DedicatedFollowerOfFashion84 · 28/03/2023 14:23

She’s a victim. She was a child when she was groomed by an extremist organisation. If this was a white British girl of 15 years old there’d be no question on whether she was a criminal or a victim. Young girls who were victims of grooming gangs were always reported to be the victims… how can the same not be true for Shemima

DeeCeeCherry · 28/03/2023 14:25

15 is a child. Think how naive we were at that age.

But adultification of non-White children, Islamophobia, and the convenience of being the poster-girl for Tories to show 'Look! We are dealing with terrorism!' (Meanwhile male terrorists languish here) has conspired against her unfortunately.

BigMandsTattooPortfolio · 28/03/2023 14:33

I think under the law, she should be returned to the UK, but I struggle to have sympathy with her.

DrinkFeckArseBrick · 28/03/2023 14:36

I think the thing that annoys me about the Shamima situation is the interviews she gave in the refugee camp have influenced peoples opinion of her...'she should stay there, she showed no remorse!'

Firstly she was physically suffering (malnourished, walked miles to a refugee camp, heavily pregnant etc) and secondly most people in a war zone who have witnessed atrocities and seen their own children die would be mentally traumatised.

Secondly the camp is full of ISIS, it is a violent place and people were at risk of being killed if they denounced ISIS. I'm not sure she could speak freely. It's like asking someone who suffers DV infront of their abusers family if they still love them...they're not going to say no if they think it's a risk it will get back to them.

Peoples views can change over time and people have a million reasons for not saying what they actually mean.

Lastly this was not a police interview (if it was they may have found she was not fit to answer questions). And even if it was, I'm not sure that 'remorse' equals 'criminally guilty' though I believe it can be taken into account in sentencing. She could be glad about all the isis atrocities. But legally that doesn't mean that a. She is guilty of a crime and b. She should be made stateless. There isnt as far as I'm aware a rule that if you seem sorry, you're allowed back in.

begoneday · 28/03/2023 14:40

I guess if you feel your daughter would be a victim if she was groomed online by a group of paedophiles, then trafficked to another country, then surely she is too ? Unfortunately for her, her name is not Florence or Mia, so the Daily Mail etc have vilified her.

mycoffeecup · 28/03/2023 14:43

Rapapampam · 28/03/2023 14:10

Now there’s some vids on YouTube about a Yazidi sex slave who was eyewitness to SB’s true behaviour in Syria.
Anyone who is defending this dumb, violent criminal is blind and equally dumb. Who in their right mind is thinking about joining a terrorist group at 15? At that age your biggest worry is your grades and whether your crush likes you, not an effing terrorist organisation.
You join a terrorist group, then don’t expect to be taken back to the UK. She can live in no-man’s land her whole life for all I care.

The video I've seen (GB news footage so to be taken with a pinch of salt maybe) just says that she was seen at a training camp, which I assume was compulsory for all new arrivals.

What 'true behaviour' are you talking about - can you link to the video?

dancinfeet · 28/03/2023 14:52

she is a victim, if she were white she would be portrayed as such in the media, but it’s too easy to throw blame instead

Blossomtoes · 28/03/2023 14:55

dancinfeet · 28/03/2023 14:52

she is a victim, if she were white she would be portrayed as such in the media, but it’s too easy to throw blame instead

Don’t think so.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-41593659

British IS recruiter Sally-Anne Jones 'killed by drone'

IS recruiter Sally-Anne Jones, the widow of an IS fighter, was reportedly killed in Syria in June.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-41593659

Rapapampam · 28/03/2023 14:56

DedicatedFollowerOfFashion84 · 28/03/2023 14:23

She’s a victim. She was a child when she was groomed by an extremist organisation. If this was a white British girl of 15 years old there’d be no question on whether she was a criminal or a victim. Young girls who were victims of grooming gangs were always reported to be the victims… how can the same not be true for Shemima

Why don’t you go and give her a hug, then house her in your property?
If she comes back here, will you pay the 24/hour security she will clearly need? No?
Will you keep, clothe and fed her? Because she won’t be able to work or do anything productive while constantly threatened.

Justanotherlurker · 28/03/2023 15:00

dancinfeet · 28/03/2023 14:52

she is a victim, if she were white she would be portrayed as such in the media, but it’s too easy to throw blame instead

Yeah like Jack Letts.

Just like you have no problem when it is a white male...

Original poster

ShamimaBegu · 28/03/2023 15:02

Rapapampam · 28/03/2023 14:56

Why don’t you go and give her a hug, then house her in your property?
If she comes back here, will you pay the 24/hour security she will clearly need? No?
Will you keep, clothe and fed her? Because she won’t be able to work or do anything productive while constantly threatened.

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Strange post!

OP posts:

Livelovebehappy · 28/03/2023 15:02

Did you see the first interview she did when tracked down? She was cold, unapologetic and seemed to wear it as a badge of honour that she agreed with every barbaric killing of Westerners. This was the true Shamima. Not the one we see now, ‘groomed’ by her lawyers and sympathetic supporters to say what needs to be said to get her foot back in the door. People saying she was unapologetic in the first interview because she was scared of repercussions - what’s changed now? She’s still in Syria, surrounded by the same dangerous people she was then. She’s manipulative, and there’s no doubt she still hates Britain, and will be grooming others if she was ever welcomed back. It’s just not worth the risk. Let her rot in the bed of her own making.

mycoffeecup · 28/03/2023 15:03

Livelovebehappy · 28/03/2023 15:02

Did you see the first interview she did when tracked down? She was cold, unapologetic and seemed to wear it as a badge of honour that she agreed with every barbaric killing of Westerners. This was the true Shamima. Not the one we see now, ‘groomed’ by her lawyers and sympathetic supporters to say what needs to be said to get her foot back in the door. People saying she was unapologetic in the first interview because she was scared of repercussions - what’s changed now? She’s still in Syria, surrounded by the same dangerous people she was then. She’s manipulative, and there’s no doubt she still hates Britain, and will be grooming others if she was ever welcomed back. It’s just not worth the risk. Let her rot in the bed of her own making.

She was just out of the desert, malnourished, traumatised, 9 months pregnant and just watched her two children die. And living in a camp with violent ISIS sympathisers. Do you honestly think judging her on one interview in that situation is valid?

MissMaple82 · 28/03/2023 15:04

She is both