Is Shamima Begum a victim or a criminal?

[ShamimaBegu]

Just listened to the podcasts about Shamima Begum. How can Shamima Begum not be viewed as a victim of grooming and sex trafficking? How on earth would a 15 year old got to Syria without adults making it happen?
She was married off and became pregnant on multiple occasions. She surely is as much a victim as a criminal?

The torn between cultures argument is very weak because most people in London (where she was raised) experience that and they don't go on to behave like that. There is a fair amount of evidence to show that she was a top achiever at school, had secure friendships and a stable home life so none of the obvious red flags except that she believed these ideologies, truly believed them to an insane degree and felt compelled to bring about this situation. She was courageous and resourceful enough to realise the nightmare.

I think both too. But many criminals are victims are grooming, or circumstance, pier pressure, poverty etc.

As many have said racism and Islamophobia are at play here. I also think a major issue for her is her unlikableness. In every interview I've seen of her she comes across of quite arrogant, and does that thing of closing her eyes when saying something controversial, in a way of showing you are not looking to see someone's response to your statement. I kind of hate myself for saying it as it shouldn't matter and her actions and situation should be all that counts. I also don't know how likable I'd be after going through all that. But there's not a lot of humility.

Whatever she is, she is (should be) Britain's problem and not dealt with via trial by Daily Mail but by the proper criminal processes and punished that way.

Many people have tough childhoods. They manage to not join a death cult.

Islamophobia my arse. ISIS were very open about who they were, what they did, the pure evil they believed in. Begum chose to join and has said she was unfazed and has no regrets.

What despicable evil things did she herself do, that there is proof for?

(and the Telegraph saying 'it is reported that.....' isn't proof)

I think she’s a criminal. However I think she is UKs problem. She was a Uk citizen, she was radicalised in the Uk. Why should Pakistan, a country she has never been to, have to deal with her. Why should Syria have to keep her in a refugee camp. Criminal or not she’s the UKs problem and stripping her of her citizenship is a breach of human rights.

It is far more complex than simply stating "She is not white". I would accept that she lived in such a multicultural bubble where the people with whom she liaised outside her cultural community were all so left leaning that she could not have fathomed what trial-by-media would yield before a wider audience.
I also accept that the shameful cultivation of Islamophobia in recent times which has largely gone unchallenged at grassroots level (due to lack of community mobilisation and a sustained effort to counter it) and allowed to explode into an ugly mess would inevitably yield lone wolf responses from disaffected British Muslims at an impressionable age and trying to make sense of it.

I don’t think you realise how incredibly offensive your opening line is but I assume it was just poorly worded.

I think her expressing fake emotions and play acting to gather favour is a strange request.

I never meant it to offend you at all. i am sorry. There are no words to articulate a response to what you wrote. I wanted to acknowledge it because you put it out there. What would have been less offensive? Would you have preffered a non response? It is always hard when people bring their personal experiences into news debates about another person.

She was 15, at that age I was heavily influenced by the animal liberation movement and tried to join a commune. Teenage angst and wanting to rebel against everything was all I cared about at that age. I look back now and realise I was a child. So with that in mind I think she was groomed and should be given a second chance.

The phrase “to turn your life around” means that I was doing something wrong before. I wasn’t. I was child and a victim. I didn’t turn anything around because I wasn’t one doing it, it stopped happening to me.

I do appreciate that there’s almost no chance you intended to cause offence. It’s just poor phrasing.

🙏

She laughed at the women and girls being raped. She's not and has never been a human being worthy of any sort of compassion or empathy for her own self-made situation.

Criminal. I’ve got zero sympathy for her.

I remember that time very clearly. There was a lot of grooming n social media. Much as kids get influenced by pop stars, these girls got influenced. Remember the parents were also taking them to rallys of banned preachers where they would have been radicalised. I do not doubt she was groomed. What has happened since is a very grey area. I think Kanaloa has nailed it- you can be both.

Looks like the podcast is working then? In getting public opinion on her side.

She will definitely be back within five years and arguably she has been made to sit it out but her return is inevitable. The real issues will arise once she comes back.

Her citizenship was removed by the UK on the grounds she was eligible to apply for Bangladeshi citizenship. She said her husband was abusive, he beat and raped her. She's suffered from malnutrition and after having 3 dcs born alive from 5 pregnancies they all died.

She's the UK's problem, and she needs to be detained here.

Again, listening to the interviews with her, what she seemed attracted to was the community that it was offering. More so than the violence or even the cause. She also barely talks about her religion factoring in. She was groomed/ indoctrinated into thinking of it as some kind of utopia community. From what I can gather she was very quickly brought down to earth when the reality hit, e.g. when she was married off.

In all fairness to her, we have some equally sick people inside our prison system already. They usually are unable to mix but there is a place for her within the system should she be allowed back.

Outrageous!

She's both.

She committed crimes. She may have many defences but commit them she did.

She is a victim of grooming and child trafficking.

As for the moral implications, I support putting national security first, and for it to come first she must come second, and that is unfortunate, and it's probably guided by the fact that one has the ability to directly threaten mine and my child's safety and the other doesn't, i.e. purely selfish.

Shamima's main issue is that she isn't white.

Jack Letts was though....