Is Shamima Begum a victim or a criminal?

[ShamimaBegu]

Just listened to the podcasts about Shamima Begum. How can Shamima Begum not be viewed as a victim of grooming and sex trafficking? How on earth would a 15 year old got to Syria without adults making it happen?
She was married off and became pregnant on multiple occasions. She surely is as much a victim as a criminal?

The fact that the Uk did that should terrify every single Uk citizen. She wasn’t even a dual citizen. Just eligible to apply. Essentially making they have made her stateless.

Both but mainly a criminal.

The thing is that I reckon she's far less dangerous than lots of people living in the UK. I am not convinced she's any real threat and that she can probably do more harm from afar than if she was brought back to the UK and dealt with properly. What she is is a lesson to others - if you do this then you will be stuck in a camp forever and not be able to come home.

Both. Same often true for sex offenders.

I mean, if she was a girl who was trafficked and turned into a prostitute, I think I'd feel sorry. But a terrorist? Who the fuck could accidentally become a terrorist? 15 is old enough to know better.
the killers of poor James Bulger were only 10 but we don't think of them as victims do we? (and if you do fuck off)

Both. But mostly victim.

I'm curious how she can wear outfits which they would consider to be super-offensive, criticise them and still be left alone when they are not really far away from where she is living?

You speak for me too.

As the home office know a lot more that your average mumsnetter, I side with them and say criminal that supports terrorism against the UK.
Therefore agree she's no longer a UK citizen

I've been saying for years that I'm confused how the media and many people are happy to accept that girls of the same age are groomed into being sexually assaulted by groups of predatory men but can't see how a girl can be groomed to do what she did. Either a 15 year old can consent to this behaviour or she can't. I don't see how this is different.

If you think you have better knowledge of the situation you should get onto Begums defence team, as even they are not disputing that she has Bangladeshi citizenship.

It has been through multiple court cases and found to be legal, as for terrifying every dual citizen that would only apply if you're thinking of running of to join a terrorist organisation. It's pretty simple concept to think through before boarding a plane.

She’s both a victim and a criminal which is what makes it such a tricky case.

She was a child, was groomed but was also aware of what she was doing when she left the country. I am in the minority that thinks she should be allowed back to the uk, she was born here and she should be able to return even if it means her being in prison. I remember being 15, I thought I knew everything, was groomed by an older man and probably would have done anything for him. 15 is still very much a child.

The difference is in the way the situation built up. There was no proof of intensive input at close physical proximity and she had control to leave the situation by logging out, seeking help from the authorities. It hadn't taken over her life. It was one aspect of her life to which she was devoting time which is how her family were blindsided. No threats were made forcing her to turn up in Syria. There were long periods of time available for reflection and self-education for an intelligent student to decide for themselves.

Both. Many (most of?) criminals start off as victims.

This.

I would only hope that lesson is heeded and on balance this decision does more harm than good.

Absolutely.

Stripping people of their nationality is a terribly slippery slope.

Even monsters come from somewhere, you can't erase their nationality to get rid of them.

legal or not why should the Uk palm off her to badadesh? Why should she be their problem? Each country is responsible for their own citizens criminal or not.

Imo a criminal.

Exactly this.

Bit of both. The two aren't exactly mutually exclusive.

I have just finished the podcast and l agree with you. She was 15, vulnerable and easily manipulated, why she wasnt treated as a victim of trafficking is beyond me. She was interviewed in the camps 2 days after giving birth to her baby by baying journalists, predominantly men hounding her, this should not have been allowed.

I do believe it will now be very difficult to bring her back to the UK as she is probably totally indoctrinated but there must be a way of safely doing this.

Difference is did the Uk try to strip James bulgers killers of citizenship and make them another countries problem? I’m sure it’s cost a fortune to keep them in protective custody all these years but monsters or not they have to be somewhere.

@Neodymium i agree. This is what I find frightening. My children were born and brought up here and I am British and they are British citizens - but now they are only ‘British by permission’. I am scared that essentially my children are viewed as ‘other’ - both socially and now legally. Tolerated but not truly welcome.
I’m finding it difficult to express this but hopefully you know what I mean.
Actually thinking about it my dad was born in the ROI so what is a British person anyway? (A white person ?)

Victim 100% and we've washed our hands of her. I'm so ashamed