Is Shamima Begum a victim or a criminal?

[ShamimaBegu]

Just listened to the podcasts about Shamima Begum. How can Shamima Begum not be viewed as a victim of grooming and sex trafficking? How on earth would a 15 year old got to Syria without adults making it happen?
She was married off and became pregnant on multiple occasions. She surely is as much a victim as a criminal?

The difficulty which she presents is that she is as tough as iron. She has not 'broken down' in the same way in which a victim eventually would. She has shown no vulnerability, just a sulky objection to what she perceives as being deprivation of her rights on various levels. Once we are talking about mass deaths then it is a moot point. It should simply be about whether there is any scope for continuing to refuse her re-entry based upon her nationality and residency and what the secure provision would look like should she ever be allowed back. The indications are very clear that she will be coming back under Labour.

She is both.

Both.

This! Pure and simple racism.

She is both imo. Many abusers were abused in their past- it does not absolve them of their crimes but it does deepen the sense of tragedy and hopelessness imo.

She is a victim of child grooming.
The fact that her citizenship has been taken away from her is a scandal.

She is a victim.

This

I've listened to all the podcasts too, and I'm more in the "criminal" camp. She was young when she went there, but she can't possibly have been as naïve as she makes out she was.
She was groomed by her friend, who'd gone to ME ahead of her. I do have some sympathy (to have several children die when you're a child yourself must be heartbreaking) but she hasn't expressed any remorse for eg Manchester, and I don't think she should be allowed back to UK until she does.
If she ever does come back, she'd need a new identity, and she'd need to be kept in some kind of remand place for a long time so that the brainwashing can be reversed,

I don’t think that’s fair.

At age 12, a family friend got high and raped me at knife point. He did it repeatedly for two years until I became pregnant.

I’ve never “broken down” over it and I don’t think I’ve shown vulnerability over it either. Why should I? What I went through has made me rather emotionally immune to sexual abuse/assault/rape, which means I spent many years able to tackle those issues for other people in a professional and supportive manner. Victims shouldn’t have to perform in order to be believed or treated as such.

If she cried about it then they’d be labelled “crocodile tears” (as they have been on this thread). Her biggest mistake was being authentic, if she’d spoken to a lawyer before speaking to a news crew then she’d be back in the UK right now.

Having listened to the podcast linked above I feel sorry for her. I can’t claim to know what it’s like to grow up feeling caught between two cultures like she did, but I can understand how an impressionable teen who felt like they didn’t quite belong could have been persuaded into believing that she was travelling to somewhere she’d be valued and happy. Teens aren’t exactly known for having a nuanced and realistic view of the world, or the ability to accurately predict the consequences of their actions.

The final episode of the podcast has some concerning comments from Syrian officials about the current situation in the camps, and also comments from a former friend of Shamima stating that she was a housewife and not involved in sewing bomb vests or anything.

I think the ISIS members in this situation should be repatriated and tried/jailed/whatever is appropriate for their circumstances by their home country. Syria didn’t cause this, and shouldn’t be left to deal with it, plus I worry about the children being brought up by religious extremists in poverty in the camp.

Both. 15 years old is old enough to understand going off to a war country where regular murders and rapes happen is wrong.

I absolutely refuse to believe that any normal, happy teenager can be talked into flying out there. It was either attention seeking or just plain stupidity and rebellion.

However, she’s obviously learnt a lesson or two; and the punishment for that is that she isn’t allowed home - she’s paying the price for her criminal side of the situation - but equally the punishment on top of what happened has put her into victim category.

Both. The podcast series was really good, and like the first one there are no clear answers.

The police have a lot to answer for as they could have stopped this when the first girl went over.

I am not sure Begum is particularly bright and appears very vulnerable to been groomed. But she now hates the media (interviewing just after she had given birth was not fair) and blames them for highlighting her plight which is the same as many others. I can sympathise with that.

tough one, but do think this country needs to take responsibility for her.

This

Gosh Chickenly, that's awful.

Both, a victim who was groomed (and that process probably started long before she was 15) but is now too radicalised to be allowed to live in our society. Very sad situation.

Kudos to you for turning your life around in such a positive way. However, I do not see how you think she compares to you. She went for trial-by-media which is the superficial choice. Displaying emotion does help where your very humanity and capacity for compassion is seriously in doubt. Trial-by-media gives the viewers a few minutes to make up their mind and they would be looking for those obvious cues. Nothing was offered.

She has shown no remorse for her actions.

Both

But she has no regrets. She did despicable, evil things. She is without doubt a criminal and a dangerous one.

Both I'd say. She's 100% a victim of grooming and indoctrination. She's also been abused significantly.
However when you listen to her talk about it, it's pretty clear that she does not really take responisbility for the things she's contributed to. In one part of her interview she expresses that she can't really see she's done anything wrong by joining ISIS because she wasn't the one out killing people.
Many many people who are criminals have had really unfortunate backgrounds and upbringings to end up where they are and do the things they do. That doesn't mean it's ok or should be excused.
I don't think she should have lost her citizenship.

I've always thought of her as a victim and have never understood the pure hostility towards her.

The Police undoubtedly missed an opportunity to stop the three girls from going, but I find the contemporaneous comments of one of the other Dads at the time sickening - the Police aren't solely responsible for the upbringing of a child - the various parents involved don't seem to have accepted they were in any way instrumental in what happened, which is very worrying to me.

I don't feel hostility to her - but I do to the activities she condoned, participated in and seems reluctant to condemn.

This.

Shamima Begum is a victim of grooming and child trafficking.