To try to ‘copy’ private education in state school

[Shipshopshap]

My daughter goes to a good state school. I’m thinking of sending my younger son (he is currently 7) to private secondary school - he is quite bright so would probably pass the entrance exams and also due to salary progression we will be able to afford it in 4 years time - we can’t at the moment send my daughter. Also - she is very smart but not academic so would probably not pass the exams( I’ve had a look at past papers)she is oblivious to all this I’ve never mentioned it to her at all

I don’t want my daughter to feel like i didn’t prioritise her - what can I do to give her similar ish opportunities to that of private school ? We can’t afford fees but can pay for clubs/tuition etc

For parents whose kids are in private, what would you recommend ? A tutor / musical instrument/ drama club / debate club /?

any ideas please ? Or AIBU?

I just want to give them both the best I can :( it’s hard bring a parent I feel guilty all the time

'Also how they are spoken to and taught to address the teachers, looking them in the eyes, shaking their hands. Having to be school ambassadors during open days. Participating in public speaking. Having to take on responsibilities with younger years. Requirements to do D of E or Cadets. An emphasis on service - my children were required to volunteer on Saturdays if not playing in a match, my daughter helped with autistic children taking music therapy for example. I'm not sure how you could recreate these experiences.'

Fuck me, of all the snobbery.

I know how you can 're-create' these experiences - send your child to any half decent school! I'm not sure how you think it works in normal schools but looking teachers in the eye, representing the school, volunteering, taking part in extra curriculars linked to school, doing the D of E are ALL part of normal secondary education.

The hand shaken though, I'll give you that. Is that a the start of every class? No saluting?

My parents did this, it was terrible for splitting the family and I never really had a relationship with my brother and still carry a feeling of stigma today. I was bright and he was struggling (possible ASD and my parents were running from a diagnosis). I was left in a Comp where you really had to work alone and make your own way. He had massive support the whole way and was (also remains) horribly entitled and arrogant, with a foul air of superiority.

This will absolutely drive a wedge between siblings as they get older. I attached private school on scholarship and my brother didn’t. There has always been friction at the opportunities I had that he didn’t, and this wasn’t parents choosing one over the other, I just happened to be a child prodigy at a creative subject the school wanted to make them look good I guess.

it isn’t just the extra curricula’s that make the difference, it’s the small classes, different lesson planning and for me most importantly it’s the life long connections and learning the unspoken rules of the elite, it’s allowed me to mix with anyone, including the royals, my brother did not have those advantages.

*attended. Autocorrect 🙄

Why on earth do you think state school children arent ambassadors on open days, dont look people in the eye, dont volunteer, dont do DofE or join cadets and dont have debating societies, drama clubs?
Those are the bits that are a doddle to recreate.

The harder bit is small well classes or similar children with lots of equipment.

Now that's interesting as our state secondary school has always had two students ambassadors from year 7 on duty for a week in the reception area. They run errands or take parents and other visitors to any meeting areas or on a tour of site. Every child has a week doing that throughout the school year (we have about 300 kids in our year 7 so we need every week we can get! It teaches them where everything in the school is and builds confidence.

All our year 7 and 8s are encouraged to help at open days as they give a very good overview to other kids about to join the school.

They encourage DofE - DS and his friend finished Silver last year and still help with their volunteering. He does his volunteering after school on Fridays and a couple of Sundays each month. Two friends have become junior leaders in the Scouts on the back of it and one helps at a local animal sanctuary at the weekends. None of the DofE students have stopped volunteering even though their work for DofE is over. The school is very proud of that and of them and the community sees young people helping which is great.

And our Sixth Form are expected to help around the school, assisting with clubs like reading and hand writing or sports, helping teachers prepare rooms for lessons etc., as well as doing their A levels. It teaches them to structure their time and give something back.

So I think a lot of state schools are now emulating private schools in doing this. Which is a good thing. It's building confidence as you said.

Smart kids can manage in a not-so-good state school. It's the non-academic ones who really struggle and come out with nothing.

What's your reasoning for sending one and not the other?

(I also made the decision to send one to private and one to state, so I'm not judging or anything.)

Strongly agree, re snobbery and all of that happening at a State school. I represented the school, also involved in music and sports at County and National level. My brother, who went to public school, was a bully and took a lot of drugs. He would have been expelled from the Comp I went to. His likely SEN were not addressed and so he also suffered.

My kids do all of those things and they’ve never set foot in a private school. They’re cadets and do d of e, they show respect and kindness and are very capable of conversing properly. What they don’t do is show snobbery!

Be careful if you can only just afford the fees OP! They are only the beginning of the cost. At our independent school, fees have just gone up £400 per term. Also music lessons and instrument hire are additional £100s per term. Trips this year (2) have cost £1500 and then there’s uniform, games equipment (eg hockey sticks) stationary, books…..It never ends.

These threads rapidly degenerate into those who believe in private education (whether or not they can afford it) and those who oppose it on ideological grounds or borne from poor personal experiences.

I took the OP's question to actually be about the morality of treating two children differently because good fortune and greater wealth later in life affords a younger child options that the older child didn't (or can't) benefit from. Many posters saw the difference in sex as significant, although the same dilemma could exist regardless of the sexes of the elder and younger children.

The plain reality though is what a private school offers is a segregated educational setting, away from the masses. The only way to replicate this for two children is to send them both to a private school. It's not about the music lessons and sports facilities - it's about living, breathing, and experiencing a childhood and an education that is explicitly 'special', selective, elitist, and apart. No-one bats an eyelid when those who can afford to chose to fly at the front of the plane or travel by first class rail or eat in better restaurants or live in bigger houses where the neighbours are further away and the council estates are miles away. I'm not sure why anyone feels the need to justify why private education is preferred by those who can afford it. It's for all the exact same reasons. It's not about making 'better' friends, it's about not being surrounded by 'worse' people. All this pretence that it's about quality of education is rubbish. It's about keeping away from the plebs.

It is for the OP to decide what would be an adequate compensation for the elder child not having this experience - but I'd say that if spanking £100k+ on school fees is now affordable for the younger one, there should really be something of equivalent value offered to the older one - perhaps fully-funding her university degree, or a deposit for a flat. I think it's OK to spend money on different things at different times for children - but not to spend disproportionately more money on one child than on the other. Extra piano lessons and a Latin tutor just won't cut it, and the OP is being very unreasonable indeed to pretend that it would.

The private school social sheen isnt guaranteed. On some this sheen lasts. On others it quickly tarnishes to arrogance and a sense of entitlement. If it isnt backed up by actual ability it soon loses any value (CV littered with false starts).

The networking opportunities are often transactional - favours are given and expected in return.

Extra curricular opportunities exist outside of school: county music schools, cadets etc etc and are often not expensive. What they require is commitment from parents. Transporting to and from venues, events etc week in, week out.

What private schools give for these is convenience. Parents just have to pay the bill.

YABU. You really can’t just send one to private school and not the other. Either send both or neither.

If your son goes on to great things your daughter will never forgive you. And I wouldn’t blame her.

As others have said, it depends on the schools (private not necessarily automatically better). I went to a really really shit state school - I could have done scholarship exams for local private schools but chose not to as I wanted to go to the same school as a close-in-age sibling. I also had a much younger sibling (10 year gap) - by the time younger sibling was ready for secondary, my parents had more money, like OP, and knew a bit more about local schools from our experiences. They moved to a more expensive area in catchment for a better state school. Older sibling and I totally supported this and thought they'd have been idiots to send him to our school now they knew better and had more options. We'd have been totally fine with it if they'd gone private too. We both did well at state school, but could see how ours was not great, and not well suited to our sibling. And we were old enough to understand that our parents couldn't have afforded the same for us.

Anyway, just to say that it could cause resentment, but it's not inevitable, especially if older DD does well at state school and the age gap is big enough for her to have more perspective on the different circumstances.

You might be disappointed to find that a lot of private schools charge extra for clubs that have an associated cost. So while sports like football will be free, the kids who get to represent the school in the pony competitions all have their own pony and have riding lessons at the weekend or after school. Ditto karate may have a termly fee attached. With fee-paying schools all you are paying for is what the state provides free of charge - the lessons - but you are getting the luxury of choosing where your child has those lessons. This means that your child is probably in a class of 20 instead of 30.

Honestly, just give both your children a lot of extracurricular opportunities and find out what they are passionate about. See what is available locally - riding / gymnastics / iceskating / music lessons. Offer lots of things to both and see what sparks an interest.

The cost of private education is tens of thousands of pounds per year. It’s fantastic - top quality and endless opportunities, as well as hard to pinpoint benefits like networking etc. Unfortunately there really is no way to replicate it in the state system and I say that as a state system teacher. My advice would be do not consider sending one and not the other. Just don’t. It will affect the relationships between the siblings, and between you and your children (and potentially future grandchildren who will certainly learn how granny favoured uncle X).

If I expected to have 7yrs worth of school fees for one child I would send both to the best state secondary I could - possibly plying some of the cash into moving to secure a good school. I would also work towards putting £30k per child away into an account to provide a house deposit for each when they eventually finish education. And I would spend big bucks on private sixth form for BOTH… potentially even an international private 6th form. This will finish off their schooling with the very best teaching at the most critical point, and allow them to target the top universities with the support and benefit of the schools who are most used to navigating that system. It will also allow them to access the networking that comes from the private sector.

I would also use some of the money to take my children away during the school holidays to places which will open their minds to the wider problems, vibrant and ancient cultures and natural wonders of the world. I’d take them to China, to Argentina, to Namibia etc, and not all 5* resorts - look into the more adventurous travel companies to give them a taste of what the world is actually like and to break down prejudices and stereotypes from the media.

Well as a straw poll, DCs friends who went to private secondary schools faired no better. In fact some struggled hugely with pressure, cliques and bullying particularly those who went to a single sex school.

You cannot give one child these priviledges and deny it to your other child. Terrible mistake.

You say you anticipate having enough income to send your son to private school in a few years time - do you anticipate having enough income to send him and put the same away to invest in your daughter in some other way?

Clubs and tutoring may help your DD find her strengths and improve on them. But I wouldn’t count on not needing tutoring or money for clubs for your DS if you send him private - in my experience parents with kids in private schools spend more money on this sort of thing, not less. What DS will get that your DD won’t is networking, attention, support to really participate in things offered at the school and an environment that tells him he’s better than those unfortunate enough not to go there too which will give him confidence.

If you want to even things up for your DD, you need to put money aside for her to spend on something DS isn’t going to get. Not try to mock up a poor facsimile of it.

There are lots of ways you could potentially invest in her instead of private school - pay her uni fees (but not your son’s) so she doesn’t come out of uni with debt, invest the money for her so she (but not your son) has a house deposit or money to start a business or something when she’s in her mid-20s, etc. The point is, if you want it to actually be fair, you need to invest the same amount of money for her and use it on something foundational to a good life.

I couldn't see how old your DD is, however I would aim to send them both in a few years, instead of just one.

My parents did this; they sent my brother until they ran out of money, and had my sister and me in state.

Although I've done really well in life since, they couldn't have known that would be the outcome of their decision.

I can afford to send both my DC private for secondary, however I will probably only send one DC as the other DC attends a school where they have 8 pupils in a class with 4 adults (due to additional needs), and I don't think a private setting could better that arrangement for that DC.

Yes - it really did go in each and every direction.

What the schools were like, how hard they worked you, what opportunities we had, what home life was like (time for Other Stuff) what the peer group was like (nearby/far flung) how long/complex the journey, whether you were perceived as "posh" etc. All different, and each difference capable of causing issues large and small.

Plus dealing with other people's assumptions on what the choices "meant". Plus whether you had a seamless ride through or interruptions and changes.

One all private, one mix, one all state.

Ethelswith I’m sorry it caused so much resentment.
Was the different education the only cause of resentment or was there bad-feeling or competitiveness about other things?
My much older sister resented that I was able to learn to ride as a child but according to my mother and brother she’s rewritten History as she never showed any interest in riding as a child.

There was also other stuff, of course there was!!

But this thread is about someone who is planning to give her DC very different educations, through deliberate choice (not life throwing shit at you and suboptimal management of said shit, as happened to us). And I don't think that's a good plan.

A more even approach to education won't mean no sibling issues. It just takes away one of the biggies.

Sorry that you still have the legacy of yours!!

On the offchance that you come back @Shipshopshap , I'm sorry, but it doesn't matter how much you indulge in mental gymnsatics to find a logical (to you) reason for treating them differently, your DD will not di the same. There's no reason why she should.
It wil leap out to her that either a) she's a girl so not as important, or b) you didn't value her education because you didn't see her as worth it, as she was 'not academic'. And it doesn't matter how much you tell her that it was 'just' about not having the money, she will not believe it. If you can't convince a bunch of strangers online, you certainly won't convince your own daughter.

In the interests of honesty, I passed the 11+ and went to grammar school. My younger brother had a chronic condition and spent a lot of time in hospital and missing school when he was primary age. He was so far behind at 11, due to that, that my parents paid for him to go to a very cheap private school for secondary (a Steiner one). I totally understood thair reasoning and didn't mind at all. Especially as I thought his school was creepy! I wouldn't have gone there if they'd paid me.

Please please don't send your Son. It's either both of neither.

For similar reasons I've always felt not valued enough or not enough good for my parents. Its left me with very very deep emotional scars. I'm in my forties, I have a good job, only have to work part time and I've already paid my mortgage off. My life is enviable in places, I realistically have achieved success, and my parents are very proud and happy with where I am in life. However the scars run very deep and the long ago historical feeling of not being worthy or good enough for so long still eats away at me deep inside.

Please don't do this to your Daughter.