To try to ‘copy’ private education in state school

[Shipshopshap]

My daughter goes to a good state school. I’m thinking of sending my younger son (he is currently 7) to private secondary school - he is quite bright so would probably pass the entrance exams and also due to salary progression we will be able to afford it in 4 years time - we can’t at the moment send my daughter. Also - she is very smart but not academic so would probably not pass the exams( I’ve had a look at past papers)she is oblivious to all this I’ve never mentioned it to her at all

I don’t want my daughter to feel like i didn’t prioritise her - what can I do to give her similar ish opportunities to that of private school ? We can’t afford fees but can pay for clubs/tuition etc

For parents whose kids are in private, what would you recommend ? A tutor / musical instrument/ drama club / debate club /?

any ideas please ? Or AIBU?

I just want to give them both the best I can :( it’s hard bring a parent I feel guilty all the time

If you were wanting to create long term family resentment in a laboratory this is how you would do it.

School fees are unlikely to cover music lessons and other extras (which are frequently compulsory). There will be transport to pay for. The uniform tends to be more expensive than for state school and there tends to be more of it.

School fees generally rise ahead of inflation.

When push comes to shove who's 'extras' will get dropped quickest? Why, DD's of course because they will be the easiest to drop.

When you are scraping coppers together to pay school fees for DS will DD be unaffected? Don't think so. She will be expected to join in the family sacrifice to keep the little prince DS in the style to which he has become accustomed.

This option makes more sense, the more academic child will do well anywhere and the less academic child needs the extra support of the private school.

Your daughter is already financially disadvantaged by her sex and if your assessment of their relative intelligence / likelihood to perform well at school is accurate, she is also disadvantaged in her inate academic ability..... why would you add to that?

She is more likely to be econimally inactive betweenthe ages of 16 and 64 (22% versus 17%), less likely to be in the top 10% of earners (33% versus 67%), more likely to be in part time employment (48% versus 19%), when in comparable employment is likely to receive 10% less pay all of which contribute to an even wider gender pension gap and an increased likelihood of poverty in old age.

Your son will do fine... the odds are stacked against your daughter. In 4 years time, invest in her future.

Just don’t send one child. It’s a terrible idea. Particularly where he is likely to look more academic, which seems the case. Whatever else you do, don’t do that. I have a lovely very successful friend and, even in her 40s she’s still really resentful of her brother being sent to private school and not her. You say it’s not fair on your son not to send him, but be aware that doing so could have a really detrimental effect on his relationship with his sister- is that fair? Would you do this in any other area of life- like buy your son “better” food, send him on different holidays or kit his room out in designer gear whilst your daughter gets ikea? In your position I would basically manage an overall education budget fairly between them, so work out how much you’re likely to have across their whole education and spend it equally between them. If you are sure that you could overall pay for your daughter too but don’t have funds now, could you borrow some money or remortgage and bridge the gap? And honestly if you’re not able to pay for private school for both, with relative ease, don’t pay for one and not the other.

How is it fair that your son should miss out because you can't afford to send his sister?

If I was your daughter I would eventually resent that and ask you how it was fair that you didn't get yourself into a position where you could send her.

I personally do not think this is fair.
We can only afford to send 1 child to private school, and don't plan on having anymore for that reason. If we were to have another child, whether planned or not, they would both go to public school.

My brother was educated privately from the age of 8, I was in state schools all the way through. I don't resent it but then he had a few problems and was basically asked to leave his primary school, so I don't think my parents had much choice.

I might have felt differently if he hadn't had issues. I wouldn't treat mine differently unless I absolutely had to.

They both go or neither.
It's terribly unfair.
You are setting your DD up for a lifetime of resentment that she didn't have the opportunities her brother did.
The only time I think it is ok to send one and not the other is if one of the children has additional needs which cannot be met in the maintained sector.

Private school is not necessarily better than a good state school. I went to an independent myself and taught in both sectors. The main factor in ensuring a child's "success" is parental involvement and interest. You would be much better off saving the money you would spend on school fees and using this to provide opportunities for both children, such as music, sport, theatre, whatever interests them and tutoring in any subjects where they need extra support.

When I look at my privately educated peers it is the networking opportunities that they have had access to and the sense of confidence rather the the chance to play polo, go skiing, small classes etc that really makes the difference. And I am not sure that you could replicate.

(on confidence I am not talking about general confidence in kids, more the sense of place and entitlement they have regardless of expertise that means they are always pushing themselves forwards for opportunities)

I could never allow this. I only have one dc and the benefits over state in her private school are way too much to be able to replicate outside of it. I would also be seriously concerned about how bitter that dc might be once they understand the implications of what you have done. Obviously if it's a tiny private school perhaps not so difficult to replicate the advantages but our dd private school has literally changed our lives. The sports have been so good she is now competing at a national level and yet we would not have had the slightest idea how to achieve this had she gone to the local state school.
Also on top of this, a lot of her friends (as well as her) do extra on top of private school so have you thought about your son missing out on certain activities too if you're entirely reliant on the school?

Or what happens when there's a school ski trip to Canada for example, will your ds be allowed to go or will you say that's an extra not afforded to your dd.

The only people nowadays I've heard say they are going to send on dc private and one dc state are people from cultures where the boy is more important than the girl. Which I think is truly unfair if the dd stays in a western country and will be treated as if they had the same advantages as a boy anyway.

I hope that's not the case for you because women in western countries are expected to work to the same standard as men and giving a boy even more of an advantage than society already generally grants them is therefore particularly cruel.

I don’t see how it’s fair that my son should miss out just because his sister could go as we can’t afford it now

This is like saying “we can afford to take one child on an expensive holiday but not two, I’m taking child 1 as why should child 1 miss out just because we can’t take both”. And then saying how can we make a cheap holiday the same for child 2. You can’t.

You cut your cloth to the number of children you have. You make choices that include the whole family.

Move to a grammar area, spend the money on tutoring to pass the exam and give them both a shot at a grammar education?

As everyone else has said, don't send one and not the other. Send neither.

Invest that additional income in extra curricular activities, tutors, educational holidays etc. Get them involved in charity work, build up their social and life skills.

If your daughter feels her brother was favoured over her she will likely resent it on some level forever. It's not unfair on your son to treat both children the same, and he would never know he'd 'missed' out on private school unless you tell him. Even if you did tell him, hopefully if he's kind and empathetic he'd be glad you didn't prioritise him over his sister.

I understand what everyone is saying
but it’s not out of choice that I’m sending one and not the other

It is out of choice. You could choose
To send them both to state school and pay for enrichment/ tutoring so they BOTH get the same

THIS.

OP, take a look at the threads in the Secondary Education forum about fee hikes. They are going up a lot. And that's before VAT gets added when we get a Labour government.

Inevitably, anything you've planned for DD to try and make it up to her, will get cut back as your son's school fees rise, because extra curric and tutoring can always be given up, whereas with private school fees you either pay up or have to move your son to a different school.

A colleague is one of four siblings and there's a 10 year gap between her/her other closest sibling and the two youngest. The two youngest went to private school because her DF had made money in between. I am not sure she resents it but it was for a good reason, wasn't split by sex, and wasn't a decision NOT to send the oldest but was a decision TO send the youngest.

I think this is an awful suggestion and is rather like the situation 70 years ago when my DF went to a very expensive boarding school and his sisters went to the little local girls' school that never sent any girls to university (I think my youngest aunt must have moved school to go to uni because my other aunts didn't and were forever left with the impression that they were stupid).

Speaking as the younger sister of two brothers who both went to a public school and I didn't, please don't do this.

Also, one of my brothers resented the rigidity of the school he was sent to at the time, and neither now volunteers the information on which school they attended.

I really don’t think it’s something you’d be able to replicate. You can do extra curricular activities but it won’t be anywhere near to the opportunities your son will get.

I would strongly advise against sending only one child and leaving the other in state.

'School fees are unlikely to cover music lessons and other extras (which are frequently compulsory). There will be transport to pay for. The uniform tends to be more expensive than for state school and there tends to be more of it.'

This.

Friend has decided to send all 3 kids private, 1st one started and now friend is complaining that the £17k fees, aren't £17k they've spent closer to £22k a year because they've had to pay for compulsory instrument lessons, lunches, 'tea' which they get after school, sports lessons because despite the school having 12 state of the art tennis courts if you want actual lesson in tennis it's extra, uniform ( £160 for a blazer!) PE shorts, socks, tops that cost £250, compulsory tennis shoes, compulsory rugby/footie boots - astro & studs - etc etc

School trips are amazing and expensive. Transport is £400 a term. And that's before you get to annual ski trip and geography trips to NYC and the clothes to wear on this trips, and that her DD now wants a better phone cos her peers all have the Iphone 14 pro and new ipads and on and on.

I think a lot depends on the good state school. What makes it good? Why is it not going to be good enough for your DS? Is there some sort of streaming in the school so, if he is academically bright, he'll be pushed more or are they muddled in together? Because if they are streamed and he's pushed he may well do as well (if not better - my work colleague regularly got me to check her work as her private school failed to notice her dyslexia...private doesn't necessarily mean good so do your homework well)

With regard to enrichment. You've got four years. Could your daughter benefit from a tutor to push her grades/exam results up if you're set on her not getting a private school education? What sort of thing does she enjoy? Is she into sports or horse riding - if so that's where you spend the money in addition to the tutoring help. Having fun is as much a part of young life as preparing for the future with grades/university etc.,

And don't forget to add in the (potential) additional hours involved with private school. One of my friends sends her DS to private school. He's at school from 8.30am until 4.45pm every weekday and has some sort of sporting event on Saturdays in the summer as taking part in a sport is encouraged for all the pupils.

That means they can't do 'after school' community based stuff as easily as they used to. His community league football club had to stop as they begin training at 5pm and he couldn't get there in time (the state school kids had been home, changed and back to the park by then as they finished an hour to 45 minutes earlier than he did). Plus he had school sports on some of their fixture dates (all geared up around the 'average' state school pupils availability). So he began to lose the old junior school friendships as they just didn't see each other regularly. He's made friends of course, but the long friendships that my DS has with his junior school mates just aren't there now sadly.

He also finishes school three weeks earlier that the state school in the summer - that can be stressful for his parents as they have another child at junior school so have 9 weeks summer holiday care to cover between them instead of the usual 6 weeks! I could imagine the resentment there too if your DD were a little younger - she'll be about 15 when he goes to secondary school so it may or may not cause an issue.

Lots to think about beyond the education side of this decision.

But if you're set on it I'd go tutoring for the exam grades which may well affect her future and things that she enjoys doing outside school. Plus every school trip as far as you can afford and she's interested - that's what will make her see she's at a good school.

This is interesting.
On a recent thread many of the posters on here claimed that private school was a waste of money, the former students are invariably entitled and arrogant and anyway most state schools offer as good as if not better education, especially given universities’ increase of contextual offers.

However on this thread posters are saying that it would be unfair to send only one child to private school as they would be getting an unfair advantage over the one at state school.

The other thing I would say is that there is more and more opportunity for state children to take part in programmes that aren't available to privately educated kids.

National Saturday Club - prioritizes kids from lower income backgrounds, and give amazing tuition and money can't buy experience for FREE.

DD had just started a cricket programme run by MCC which specifically states that only kids from state schools can apply. DS doing a similar Premiership league team dev programme that states no independent school applicants.

have a look around OP - there are more and opportunities for children, check what's available in your area according to your children's interests.

And I agree wholeheartedly with the poster who said that your DD will be constantly discriminated against because she's a girl/woman. It really should not be starting with her own parents.

'However on this thread posters are saying that it would be unfair to send only one child to private school as they would be getting an unfair advantage over the one at state school.'

Perceived advantage. Privately educated kids have huge advantages and privilege in many ways - but entitled and arrogant, and often detached from the realities of the real world? Definitely.

I dont think you can recreate the private school experience of smaller classses and sports, music, arts built into the day and ample materials.

I do think that picking an interest and really pursuing it helps with personal development. Especially one that involves a club you can get involved in, not one where you are just taught a skill by an adult. So a choir that tours, a sports club that has award nights, captains, young volunteer coaches, travels to matches/competition. Cadets where you meet other squadrons and even dinner dances and can do lots of different courses, volunteer at public events or scouts where you can also be a young leader and join in biggger events. There are some amazing drama groups that arent about teaching children drama, but a community putting on a show with all ages.

The OP clearly feels it's an advantage. So it's unfair or her to send one child to a perceived advantageous situation and not the other. She is also prepared to spend a whole lot of money on one child and not the other - also unfair.

Whether private school itself actually conveys advantages is a completely different question

She is also prepared to spend a whole lot of money on one child and not the other - also unfair.
Whether private school itself actually conveys advantages is a completely different question

I get it about the money being spent but I’m just surprised that so many posters think the privately educated child will be at an advantage when many think state school is superior.
Also I’m not absolutely sure of the difference between ‘advantage’ and ‘perceived advantage’.

My parents sent me to private school because they perceived it to be an advantage.

I hated it, was hugely bullied and was left with mental health issues.

My parents looks at my results and still perceive it as an advantage.
I don't think it was.

Does that help?