AIBU?
AIBU: I am so annoyed by my kids' unwarranted detention?
SueDomym · 17/03/2023 22:26
Hi people, I hope this message finds you well.
I have moved for one new year to rural France and I are taking one year of school here. They are 11+12yr old boys who have not hit puberty in any way yet. One still sleeps with a giant teddy... to say they are lovely kids - context I think, is relevant here.
My eldest was given detention on the first week of school for the 'destruction of property'. Apparently, someone had ripped some sellotape around a broken ping-pong table. So DS was given a detention. I asked my son, but he said he had done nothing. I spoke with the principal and he said that there was at least one person who had seen him doing this, a student. It was a detention and there was no more talking about it. I accepted but explained that I felt it was unfair in my son's first week of school in a place where he doesn't speak the language. I also said I believed my son.
5 months later I innocently asked two kids at the school if they knew what happened - they both told me it was the boy who did rip the selotape who blamed my kid to not get into trouble and that the principal had punished him once he found out. I had not been told this and my son was not apologised to which I felt would have been fair.
Fast forward to 2 days ago, a note was sent home with a stamped signature from the school principal. It said: Your sons were climbing a school fence and will receive one hour's detention.
So, I asked my boys about it and they said that during the long 1.5-hour break they were hanging off a grill-fence. A 'surveillante' was watching them, she said nothing and walked away.
The day after that I get an official letter with the artices of the law this punishment was under: one hour's detention for climbing on the school fence. And that the youngest son can remember to be better behaved towards his community in future. I ask my boys again, politely to see ifthey will tell the truth. They know I better with the truth than not, getting caught out for lying is worse in my opinion. Also they other boy who was with them also has his parents writing back saying they did no harm to any school equipment and would have got down had they simply been asked.
I believe my boys and want to know how to contest this decision when the boys had not been given a verbal warning first.
So, I call the school and I happen to get one of the people who watched the boys climb the wall. I asked why they didn't simply ask them to get down. She replied that there were two adults watching them. I asked if the other person had asked the boys to get down, and she replied "well they should just know". Basically, I argued with her asking why they couldn't have spoken to the boys.
She asked if I wanted to speak to her boss and I said no. I said I would like to speak to a parent-teacher representative. She told me she couldn't give out their phone numbers. She also told me if I wasn't happy with the school to take them out of this one. She finished with "I wish you a very good day" and I replied " I don't believe you.". It felt like a nasty argument.
I had some time this morning so I looked up the school rules: they have to start with a verbal warning. Detention is once parents have been spoken with.
I also spoke to two other people about this and they said that this isn't worth fighting because this is the way it is and I will not get them to back down.
I spoke with an official mediator and she said not to bother with this. If I kick up a fuss over this small punishment I will bring down the whole establishment on the boys heads - my complaints will make them suffer. Can you imagine?
Am I unreasonable in thinking that this is unfair behaviour by the school? It's a little, rural school. Everyone knows each other. I have a mobile phone. They could easily speak with me.
AIBU for expecting better communication first for such a minor offence?
Or am I just being unrealistic about the world today? (Be kind if you think so - but honest!).
I just wish I had a way of feeling less alone. I showed the letter from the school to 2 friends and they both said they have never seen a letter with a paragraph of law articles on it explaining how this detention was official. I mean.. really.
I wrote to their class teacher and the HR manager - I had no reply today.
Thanks for listening if you got this far.
Personal detail redacted by MNHQ
Am I being unreasonable?
AIBUYou have one vote. All votes are anonymous.
Eyerollcentral · 17/03/2023 23:07
WatermelonFlamingo · 17/03/2023 23:00
I'm with you, OP. The school seems controlling and unpleasant.
Really can't believe the responses you're getting.
Sorry you and they are dealing with this.
Controlling??? It’s a school. There are school rules. If you break the rules you will be punished. Children do have to be controlled at school. Do you want them to just be running wild, tearing down fences or god forbid falling off them on to concrete? I can’t believe you cannot see a problem with a child hanging off a fence, there is a clear danger to them and the fence!
Eyerollcentral · 17/03/2023 23:10
SueDomym · 17/03/2023 23:07
I know I didn't learn anything from punishment at school. I learned from teachers that could talk with kids not just bully them into conformity.
Where did you go to school? Would you have been happy if your dangling sons had fallen off the fence or it buckled and they fell flat on their face? I bet you’d want answers then. If you can’t get on board with the school ethos and rules, home school or send them to another school without rules or punishment.
BillyDeanisnotmylover · 17/03/2023 23:10
No big deal. They did something that the school doesn’t allow. So they got detention. They won’t do it again.
Does the school sound strict? Yes.
Is it unfair? Possibly.
Should you just suck it up? Yes, if you want your kids to stay at the school.
Is a detention a big del? No.
user1473878824 · 17/03/2023 23:11
BillyDeanisnotmylover · 17/03/2023 23:10
No big deal. They did something that the school doesn’t allow. So they got detention. They won’t do it again.
Does the school sound strict? Yes.
Is it unfair? Possibly.
Should you just suck it up? Yes, if you want your kids to stay at the school.
Is a detention a big del? No.
I agree with this completely
Chickenly · 17/03/2023 23:12
SueDomym · 17/03/2023 23:07
I know I didn't learn anything from punishment at school. I learned from teachers that could talk with kids not just bully them into conformity.
Yeah, you’re beyond help and you’re the problem. This isn’t about an “unwarranted detention”, it’s about not liking that the school don’t think your perfect little babies are any better than the other children of the world. You’re in for a very, very tough time if you don’t get your arse in gear and learn that boundaries are a good thing.
Eyerollcentral · 17/03/2023 23:15
SueDomym · 17/03/2023 23:11
I can't believe you don't see the issue with teachers not asking them to get down and just walking off saying nothing.
If it didn't warrant a telling off in person it doesn't warrant a detention.
No one should have to tell them. There is no way they would have thought they were allowed to do it. If they were told to get down and still got a detention then you would still have a problem
JarByTheDoor · 17/03/2023 23:17
If I saw a kid I was responsible for doing something that's against the (unwritten?) rules because it's dangerous to the child and can damage property, I wouldn't watch them do it, walk away without saying anything, then later issue a standard penalty for bad behaviour. That's just odd.
Ovidnaso · 17/03/2023 23:19
SueDomym · 17/03/2023 22:57
Maybe I am just not seeing hanging onto a fence as a terrible and obviously punishable offence. I had genuinely never considered that. I mean have you never hung on a fence before as a kid? I mean that as an actual question...if you would be so kind as to reply.
I climbed wire fences often as a child, at school and in parks, and was only told to get down if I climbed too high near the top. Certainly no detentions. At secondary school we climbed on the rooftops, too.
Perhaps they're just stricter in France. They ought make it clear, especially as your boys are only just picking up the language.
Ovidnaso · 17/03/2023 23:20
JarByTheDoor · 17/03/2023 23:17
If I saw a kid I was responsible for doing something that's against the (unwritten?) rules because it's dangerous to the child and can damage property, I wouldn't watch them do it, walk away without saying anything, then later issue a standard penalty for bad behaviour. That's just odd.
Exactly. Racism, possibly.
SueDomym · 17/03/2023 23:24
Eyerollcentral · 17/03/2023 23:10
Where did you go to school? Would you have been happy if your dangling sons had fallen off the fence or it buckled and they fell flat on their face? I bet you’d want answers then. If you can’t get on board with the school ethos and rules, home school or send them to another school without rules or punishment.
SueDomym · 17/03/2023 23:07
I know I didn't learn anything from punishment at school. I learned from teachers that could talk with kids not just bully them into conformity.
I went to a variety of different schools in different countries (Kenya, Bahrain, France, UK) and I think I probably climbed some description of wall / fence at all of them until I was about 11.
I did no harm - exactly like in this case. But if I was asked to not do something I stopped... I was a kid and I played.
The kids in this story were watched hanging off a fence in silence by adults. The adults said nothing to them. If it was so "dangerous" and bad why not tell them off there and then?
I got a few detentions for things that had been made clear to me were not allowed and I did it again. That is normal school protocol and fair. I would know, I have worked in schools most of my adult life.
SueDomym · 17/03/2023 23:27
Chickenly · 17/03/2023 22:50
But is punishment the only way to learn?
No, of course not. Just like how they're learning from you right now that they can do whatever the fuck they like because mummy will tell the school off for thinking the rules apply to them. If you don't like your children being disciplined for breaking rules then home school them.
Your bad use of sarcasm doesn't help at all. Thanks for the bitterness.
MeinKraft · 17/03/2023 23:28
SueDomym · 17/03/2023 23:11
I can't believe you don't see the issue with teachers not asking them to get down and just walking off saying nothing.
If it didn't warrant a telling off in person it doesn't warrant a detention.
Do you actually know the school didn't say something to them?
Allthegoodnamesarechosen · 17/03/2023 23:33
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Dancingdoggo · 17/03/2023 23:34
I agree with you OP about the fact it seems an odd way for them to deal with it.
I would absolutely expect them to call the kids off the fence first even if they did then get a detention.
But you perhaps have to assume school are fairly clear with the kids about the fence being a no-go area that they mention quite often perhaps even saying it’s an automatic detention if you are seen climbing it. Our school have a pond area that the kids are frequently told they will get detention if they go into.
I don’t agree with you about the way you are handling it sorry. I think you have to let it go and just say to the kids- well you know for sure about the fence rule now so get the detention done and don’t do it agin then move on.
Going into battle everytime school do something like this will not end well. For you or the kids! I know that can be tricky though when we feel hard done by but you honestly won’t win this and it does f set a good example to your boys.
Biggiee · 17/03/2023 23:37
So:
👉You've rang the school
👉You've looked up the school rules
👉You've spoken to two other people about this
👉You then spoke with an official mediator
👉You've written to class teacher
👉You've written to HR manager
👉You've posted an extremely large post on MN
Question 1, are your kids even arsed in the slightest that they have got detention?
Question 2, I bet your kids have served their sentence 10 times over by the time you've done all of the above?
Question 3, can you not see that you are being that parent?
WandaWonder · 17/03/2023 23:54
Ovidnaso · 17/03/2023 23:20
Exactly. Racism, possibly.
JarByTheDoor · 17/03/2023 23:17
If I saw a kid I was responsible for doing something that's against the (unwritten?) rules because it's dangerous to the child and can damage property, I wouldn't watch them do it, walk away without saying anything, then later issue a standard penalty for bad behaviour. That's just odd.
How is it racism?
thirdfiddle · 18/03/2023 00:13
I think you probably should have spoken to the boss when offered.
Certainly in the UK, and sounds like maybe also where you are too, parent-teacher representatives don't have anything to do with this sort of thing. Maybe they do in the Czech republic? Is there a first contact for you at the school? Again at ours in the UK, it would be DC's form tutor I'd talk to if I was concerned about something like this, or maybe head of year. Is there someone like that for you to contact about concerns?
It seems like they use detention a lot more lightly than I'm used to, and you're used to a school environment where it's not used at all. As such I think your natural reaction is that it's a huge punishment. You may find that where you are it's seen as no big deal, so your reaction will seem disproportionate to people.
As always when talking to schools, don't assume you know the whole story.
But seems to me you do have reasonable questions to ask. Were they doing something dangerous? If so, why were they not told to get down? If not, why straight to detention without any verbal warning?
Maybe they've fallen foul of history before they joined the school. There could be strict rules about the fence that were communicated before they joined and they genuinely didn't know, or were communicated when they'd recently joined and they didn't understand because of the language barrier. As a default, I wouldn't assume hanging on a fence was any sort of offence (sorry), we used to do it and our teachers didn't object.
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