AIBU: I am so annoyed by my kids' unwarranted detention?

[SueDomym]

Hi people, I hope this message finds you well.
I have moved for one new year to rural France and I are taking one year of school here. They are 11+12yr old boys who have not hit puberty in any way yet. One still sleeps with a giant teddy... to say they are lovely kids - context I think, is relevant here.
My eldest was given detention on the first week of school for the 'destruction of property'. Apparently, someone had ripped some sellotape around a broken ping-pong table. So DS was given a detention. I asked my son, but he said he had done nothing. I spoke with the principal and he said that there was at least one person who had seen him doing this, a student. It was a detention and there was no more talking about it. I accepted but explained that I felt it was unfair in my son's first week of school in a place where he doesn't speak the language. I also said I believed my son.
5 months later I innocently asked two kids at the school if they knew what happened - they both told me it was the boy who did rip the selotape who blamed my kid to not get into trouble and that the principal had punished him once he found out. I had not been told this and my son was not apologised to which I felt would have been fair.

Fast forward to 2 days ago, a note was sent home with a stamped signature from the school principal. It said: Your sons were climbing a school fence and will receive one hour's detention.
So, I asked my boys about it and they said that during the long 1.5-hour break they were hanging off a grill-fence. A 'surveillante' was watching them, she said nothing and walked away.
The day after that I get an official letter with the artices of the law this punishment was under: one hour's detention for climbing on the school fence. And that the youngest son can remember to be better behaved towards his community in future. I ask my boys again, politely to see ifthey will tell the truth. They know I better with the truth than not, getting caught out for lying is worse in my opinion. Also they other boy who was with them also has his parents writing back saying they did no harm to any school equipment and would have got down had they simply been asked.
I believe my boys and want to know how to contest this decision when the boys had not been given a verbal warning first.
So, I call the school and I happen to get one of the people who watched the boys climb the wall. I asked why they didn't simply ask them to get down. She replied that there were two adults watching them. I asked if the other person had asked the boys to get down, and she replied "well they should just know". Basically, I argued with her asking why they couldn't have spoken to the boys.

She asked if I wanted to speak to her boss and I said no. I said I would like to speak to a parent-teacher representative. She told me she couldn't give out their phone numbers. She also told me if I wasn't happy with the school to take them out of this one. She finished with "I wish you a very good day" and I replied " I don't believe you.". It felt like a nasty argument.

I had some time this morning so I looked up the school rules: they have to start with a verbal warning. Detention is once parents have been spoken with.

I also spoke to two other people about this and they said that this isn't worth fighting because this is the way it is and I will not get them to back down.

I spoke with an official mediator and she said not to bother with this. If I kick up a fuss over this small punishment I will bring down the whole establishment on the boys heads - my complaints will make them suffer. Can you imagine?

Am I unreasonable in thinking that this is unfair behaviour by the school? It's a little, rural school. Everyone knows each other. I have a mobile phone. They could easily speak with me.
AIBU for expecting better communication first for such a minor offence?

Or am I just being unrealistic about the world today? (Be kind if you think so - but honest!).

I just wish I had a way of feeling less alone. I showed the letter from the school to 2 friends and they both said they have never seen a letter with a paragraph of law articles on it explaining how this detention was official. I mean.. really.

I wrote to their class teacher and the HR manager - I had no reply today.

Thanks for listening if you got this far.

Personal detail redacted by MNHQ

[Harping0n]

Exactly what @Teachingteacher said. She is exactly on the point.

[Zonder]

@Mirabai

I can tell you what the response to all that would be: Tant pis.

😆😆😆 I think you're right!

[Mirabai]

I can tell you what the response to all that would be: Tant pis.

[DahliaRose3]

Also you shouldn’t be afraid to speak up for fear of going against the crowd; I’m certain you’re not the only way that feels this way.

[DahliaRose3]

I don’t think YABU. Mumsnet mums can be so ugly, honestly!

Your children are in a new country and school where they don’t speak the language, and CHILDREN need to be told or reminded about rules. It seems excessive to give detention over broken cellotape and climbing a fence. The teachers are there to guide and teach. I would be very annoyed. Archaic to resort to detention just like that. The letters are over the top. And yes, he should receive an apology. We shouldn’t teach our children that adults can do whatever they want.

I’m with you, speaking to them first is better than handing out detentions left right and centre; it’s excessive. Today he isn’t believed for a minor infraction, tomorrow for a major one.

On principle I wouldn’t let it go, and would speak to the school. Don’t let them bully you. Some schools have stupid rules and they need to be challenged. I don’t agree that everything goes at school. My niece was in a similar situation abroad due to the language barrier but on a very serious scale; turns out she was innocent.

Surely the teachers should use critical thinking, and explain first. Is it obvious the fence would break? No, not necessarily. For those of you saying yes, I’ve met plenty of British adults who don’t know seemingly obvious things, so why assume children know everything?!

[Mirabai]

@puttingontheritz

This is the point that I disagree with, from personal experience. You don't become a fluent French speaker after months living in France attending a French school.

Yes, I speak from personal experience too. Not from Google.

[Zonder]

There's a reason for that @Chickenly ! And in fact the post just above yours by @puttingontheritz might explain it a bit. If some are calling B2 fluent then we can see what the issue is. I am fluent in one language, and B2 in two others. No way would I say I was fluent in those. So it depends on what you mean by fluent.

[Chickenly]

@Zonder

No one said the children are fluent French speakers from birth. Just that, severe disability aside, they would be fluent French speakers after months living in France attending a French speaking school.

But as some of us have already said, children don't reach actual fluency in a few months in a school. Hopefully OPs children had some French before though as she is half French.

Yes, you’ve repeatedly claimed that

[puttingontheritz]

That said, I have just read one of the links from this thread, and they define fluency as B2, which I would not have defined as fluent, so I guess it also depends what you mean.

[puttingontheritz]

@ToothHurtie

If you are right in classing the kids as fact fluent French speakers from birth

No one said the children are fluent French speakers from birth. Just that, severe disability aside, they would be fluent French speakers after months living in France attending a French speaking school.

This is the point that I disagree with, from personal experience. You don't become a fluent French speaker after months living in France attending a French school.

[Zonder]

No one said the children are fluent French speakers from birth. Just that, severe disability aside, they would be fluent French speakers after months living in France attending a French speaking school.

But as some of us have already said, children don't reach actual fluency in a few months in a school. Hopefully OPs children had some French before though as she is half French.

[ToothHurtie]

@puttingontheritz

I take your point, but she's picked mumsnet to post on and not magicmaman, her kids have only been to school in the Czech republic. If you are right in classing the kids as fact fluent French speakers from birth, then their behaviour and hers is really unacceptable and they have no excuse whatsoever. I have an example in my family of the children not speaking one of the parents' native language, it's not a given that they are French speakers, if they have grown up speaking Czech and English.

If you are right in classing the kids as fact fluent French speakers from birth

No one said the children are fluent French speakers from birth. Just that, severe disability aside, they would be fluent French speakers after months living in France attending a French speaking school.

[puttingontheritz]

@ToothHurtie

@puttingontheritz would have a good point if OP were an expat but she’s not. She’s spending a year in France and her children are at a French speaking school and she speaks French. Ex-pats don’t learn the language by immersion because they aren’t immersed in it. OP’s DC’s aren’t expats and they are immersed it. Good point well made by Ritz but entirely irrelevant to this particular situation.

I take your point, but she's picked mumsnet to post on and not magicmaman, her kids have only been to school in the Czech republic. If you are right in classing the kids as fact fluent French speakers from birth, then their behaviour and hers is really unacceptable and they have no excuse whatsoever. I have an example in my family of the children not speaking one of the parents' native language, it's not a given that they are French speakers, if they have grown up speaking Czech and English.

[DailyCake]

"Personally I'm not sure that even the idea that people learn more quickly in the country stands up to scrutiny"

It's not the living in the country per se, but the willingness and desire to learn the local language that are the main drivers in immersion language learning.
I've lived as an expat in several countries and when expats stick to their own expat groups, there is little incentive to become fluent in the language of the country they are living in, if they can get by with without it.

[Testina]

So you don’t want official “legal” type letters, but you do want to start complaining about not following the verbal warning procedure?

I actually agree that a quick, “off the fence you two, you know the rules” would have been good.

But what is the surveillante supposed to do - have an app shared with the others to record the number of informal verbal calls so they know which of say two children can be told to get off, and which is a repeat offender due a detention.

They were in the wrong, it’s only a detention, and you’re being ridiculously sensitive about it.

[Teachingteacher]

Welcome to the French education system, where the teachers are always right and the parents are always wrong. I live in the same system and my DS goes to French school. You need to get used to this quickly or you won’t survive.

Also, 11 and 12 is on the threshold of being too old to fully integrate and learn a second language. Many companies won’t let families with kids 12 or older move country, unless they are in an international English speaking school for this reason. It’s going to be very hard for your children and you need to support them with this transition. You will have already been labelled ‘difficult’ by the administration, and you’re not making it easier for your kids by making this a hill to die on.

Sorry for this hard truth but that’s how it is. I work at an international school and we have loads of expat families who join us after finding the French system too much. Perhaps that’s a consideration for your family?

I wish you and your kids the best OP.

[pimplebum]

Also you are a fool for believing your kids
Kids in trouble never tell whole truth

[pimplebum]

Moving is stressful , your kids did wrong , your reaction is way over the top - contacting HR ?! Way to much

[sanityisamyth]

@fitzwilliamdarcy

I used to teach in the Far East and it was like that. Behaviour was impeccable and the kids grew up into wonderful human beings, many of whom I’m still in touch with.

By contrast, the friends I have who teach here sound more like zookeepers. Except the animals would be better behaved and you don’t have to reason with their parents.

I wish the UK were more like France. Also explains why you don’t see many feral kids there running around cafes and screaming…

Quite.

[dollypartin]

@BillyDeanisnotmylover

No big deal. They did something that the school doesn’t allow. So they got detention. They won’t do it again.
Does the school sound strict? Yes.
Is it unfair? Possibly.
Should you just suck it up? Yes, if you want your kids to stay at the school.
Is a detention a big del? No.

100%

[fitzwilliamdarcy]

I used to teach in the Far East and it was like that. Behaviour was impeccable and the kids grew up into wonderful human beings, many of whom I’m still in touch with.

By contrast, the friends I have who teach here sound more like zookeepers. Except the animals would be better behaved and you don’t have to reason with their parents.

I wish the UK were more like France. Also explains why you don’t see many feral kids there running around cafes and screaming…

[ToothHurtie]

@puttingontheritz would have a good point if OP were an expat but she’s not. She’s spending a year in France and her children are at a French speaking school and she speaks French. Ex-pats don’t learn the language by immersion because they aren’t immersed in it. OP’s DC’s aren’t expats and they are immersed it. Good point well made by Ritz but entirely irrelevant to this particular situation.

[UnshakenNeedsStirring]

@MrsJamesofSutton I think people like you are the problem

[Sugarfree23]

@puttingontheritz thats a very good point. There are people who have been in the UK for years and don't speak English.

[Zonder]

Good point @puttingontheritz